I know it’s not you. Even though I don’t agree with you and think your a little too obsessed with the subject, I do respect that you don’t hide behind fake names.
Absolutely for sure last post on this thread.
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Dragon is pushing the envelope on complexity. They’re not idiots, when they find the envelope they will adjust. Personally, I don’t think Magic Tracks are worth it. Obviously someone else must think so, because a few of Dragon’s latest tanks either have DS or DS and Magic Tracks (that’s a sweet idea.) They really could work on the instructions, but Eduard’s would be just as odd if they built big ships or tanks. Next kit up is the Dragon Pz 38(t) - with blinking Magic Tracks.
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As for this being an old guy habit, that’s not so bad if you look at the demographics. All of these former modelers retiring … sounds good. More to the point, this is an international hobby now. Check YouTube: there’s a modeling show on Japanese television thats clearly geared toward teens. I’d guess in a world where not every kid has a car that modeling would be a very attractive hobby. The world’s getting richer overall - at least rich enough for people to buy plastic airplanes. I’d guess the Asian modeling community is very large and probably pretty young - their 60 year olds were either facing the Cultural Revolution or rebuilding countries that had been devastated by the real versions of the machines we model. Being a “baby boomer” in China, Korea or Japan was a lot different than living with Leave it to Beaver in the US. This hobby has a good future methinks. (Now someone build CV6 - that’s an order.)
Eric
That cliche’ is getting a little long in the tooth…victors don’t write history, historians do…And there are plenty of Japanese and German historians who have spun their own take on what “happened” in WW2 …
I remember almost 40 years ago having my first experience with a kit beyond my skill level. At that time I built 48 scale armor and found that a company named Bandai produced all kinds of German armor in that scale. My brother and I made the trek downtown to Levine’s in Colorado Springs. When I discovered this hobby shop, I was the proverbial kid in a candy shop. Wow, there were a gazillion different types of tanks and armor. Prior to that I had build Monogram (IIRC) armor. But these new Japanese kits had interior detailing and I was blown away. I was intimidated at first, but started on my first one anyway. It was the Panther tank.When I was done, it looked pretty good to me. Somehow kits from other mfgs never had the same appeal. Yeah, compared to the others, there were lots of tiny parts, but man did it look good to me and it wasn’t too long before this was my new skill level.
I realize that not everyone craves the extra detail, but there are plenty of us out there and Dragon has been catering to us. Trumpeter has produced a nice kit too. See the review on ModelWarships.com for a good look at it. If your looking for an easier build, then that may be what your looking for. Different strokes for different folks. There is no need to bash one or the other, vote with your wallet and don’t make and arse out of yourself on a personal crusade to save the world from one or the other.
It’s held true for the past 5,000 years.
Prehaps you prefer “the vanquished cannot bury their mistakes”. Although even the victor finds it hard to bury mistakes since the advent of live news coverage.
All nations committed war atrocities in WW2, but only the ‘winner’ can censor their ‘facts’. My dad saw a US fighter strafe and kill a Czech farmer…it wont stop me building a P-47 if I choose to do so (he doesn’t know the a/c in question, I’ve always imagined a P-47). One farmer isnt 6 million Jews, but still I wonder how much went on that we’ll never know about.
War is hell, isn’t it? Even today, the Japanese in general deny the attrocities committed in China, or at best, ignore it…you are right about one thing: all sides were responsible for acts to be ashamed of; but the primary (and very important) difference between the Allies and the Axis was that in the Axis powers’ case, theirs was institutionalized and sanctioned by the government…
Sorry, just not feeling the guilt you may have for the success of the Allies winning…
Very provocative and stimulating exchange of perspectives, about which I have a humble, but slightly cosmic thought (OT to follow).
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Can anyone name a truly noble war?
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Of the WWII combatants, among which would you most want to live?
I saw some interesting footage of American submariners practicing on a Japanese sinking survivor in the water. Small arms fire, .45 Thompson and 1911.
Judge not. The smoke had barely cleared over Hawaii according to the film’s alleged date.
So what do you guys think about that new German Destroyer that Trumpeter just released?
Dunno yet - mine has yet to arrive. I have read Tim’s review of the kit and it looks right enough (for me).
The only downside is the omission of some PE for the ships railings. I’d have sooner had that included rather than stuff which eventu8ally gets covered over by various superstructure parts and which will never be seen again.
Still, there are enough generic DKM ship’s railing PE sets out there with something suitable no doubt, and at least I’ll not have to shell out in one lump for something I may or may not be able to use on the kit.
Who wins and who loses in conflicts? Everyone loses except those who are spared the fight.
As for my dislike of IJN? It’s a personal thing borne of the way one of my own was treated by the enemy at the time.
Other’s mileage may vary.
As far as atrocities go, read the Japanese account of the Behar Massacre. The S.S. Behar was a British merchant ship in the Indian Ocean in 1944 when she was caught and sunk by the Japanese heavy cruiser Tone. The crew and women passengers were treated badly (some were tortured), then most were beheaded. The order to do so came as a result of the Japanese perspective that the Americans were committing atrocities against Japanese prisoners of war. History is always much more interesting when all sides are considered; indeed, I always have my students research all sides of an historical issue.
Does this mean that we should avoid building the new Tamiya 1/350 Tone? That is up to you, the builder. But, the ship did not commit the massacre of Behar’s crew and passengers. Her crew in 1944 did.
That leads to the other question . . . do we continue building Kriegsmarine ships because of the holocaust? Of course! We are actively debating the merits of two new KM destroyer model kits. The German Navy was acquited at Nuremberg as having fought an honorable war. But, we build Waffen S.S. tanks; the S.S. committed horrible acts of brutality. In Europe, the swastika is outlawed; modelers cannot use it. But we do in the U.S. for historical accuracy. Where do we draw the line?
One of your own suffered at the hands of the Japanese 70 years ago. One of my own, a foot soldier in the Pacific in WWII (also a civilian college professor of Japanese literature) was appalled that such a gentle and honorable people could commit the atrocities they did. Again, where do we draw the line?
Bill Morrison
My line is already drawn and is not up for further discussion.
You are of course, free to make up your own minds, but please respect the decision I have made and leave it at that.
You are also free to further the discussion but please do not persist in questioning my own personal viewpoint.
Thank you.
Thank you so much for allowing us to continue the discussion if we choose to—that is very kind of you…
I’m sorry, did I question anyone’s personal viewpoint?
Bill
Well, having just read the review of Dragon’s new Zerstorer, it seems that Dragon are not including any ship’s railings PE either.
So it makes it a little easier to compare what you get in value for money terms between Trumpeter & Dragon.
Sorry, but I think this is a spurious argument. I know people who are intimidated by the prospect of building a Tamiya armor kit, so the fact that a modeller bought a kit and then decided it was too great of a challenge is not, in and of itself, significant. If this were happening with a large proportion of the DML Sharnhorsts then maybe you’d have a point. But one case of anecdotal evidence doesn’t prove anything.
I can completely understand your personal decision to not build IJN subjects because of your family history, but I wonder, does your personal boycott go beyond models - do you avoid buying products made in Japan?
No I don’t - simply because it is nigh on impossible to do so.
Many items are ‘assembled in XYZ’ but comprise of components manufactured in Japan and it is impossible to tell who has made what.
Yes the electric toaster that sits n my kitchen table may carry the label ‘Assembled in the EU’ but where have the individual components been sourced from?
To boycot every single item would be folly.
Sorry about the airfix thing - I pasted incorrectly!
As to the spurious event concerning the Scharnhorst, you will I hope, also have noted that I didn’t specifically state that ALL kits would end up like this - I just noted the fact that I was wondering how many WILL end up like this.
I say we have a “modeling death match” between dragon fanboy and trumpeter fanboy. Drop your … and grab your kit and lets see what you’ve got boys!
Thuderdome?