Hey - tried mr. surfacer 1200 tonight as a primer, mixed with 30% (approx) lacquer thinner (per Swanny’s recommendation on his site), sprayed via my Thayer and Chandler 4000 at ~20psi and I end up with the strangest spider web looking collections along intersections of plastic parts. On the flat surfaces it wasn’t too bad, but at corners it ended up forming the funkiest spider web looking material. I’m bummed cause I started with the frame/undercarriage of a HEMMT, which is super-complex, and now I’m going to have to go along the million + lines of the frame and somehow clean it up. Funny thing was, after that I sprayed some other flat pieces and it worked great, and then it was working fine for a bit and then started up again! Bled the line of any moisture (thought that was it initially), but then it came back. I’m stymied. The stuff worked great on a few surfaces, but not others. Any ideas? Thanks [banghead]
Well, I’m cleaning the frame/undercarriage off with a microbrush, and the only thing I can think of is maybe the product was drying prior to hitting the surface. But I was blowing at a pretty high psi, and well thinned with lacquer thinner, unless the lacquer thinner accelerated drying of the product. Anyone spray this stuff straight from the bottle as a primer, or does everyone thin it? Maybe I’ll try thinning it with Mr. color thinner instead, but it costs more than lacquer thinner and I think it’s mostly lacquer thinner anyways. Ideas, anyone? Anyone? Anyone? (Ferris Bueller reference… [;)]). Thanks - Jon
Jon,
I have had this problem with Mr.Surfacer and laquer thinner myself. Usually the spider webs appear when the Mr. Surfacer isn’t thinned properly. I don’t recall you stating what kind of airbrush you have but I have a Evolution gravity feed. I mix my paint and thinner in the airbrush cup and have to make sure that it is mixed well. Also, I found that switching to Mr. Color thinner as a thinner for Mr. Surfacer works better than laquer thinner. I have had far fewer problems when using Mr. Color thinners.
Hope this helps you,
Chuck B.
Chuck - many thanks for the reply. I was actually getting ready to give it another shot tonight when I got your message (just in the nick of time). I tried using the Mr. Color Thinner instead, and I actually thinned it a little more aggressively than before too, and it worked like a dream. Initially I hadn’t thinned it as much and I saw a bit of the webbing, but added a little more thinner (probably up to about 40%) and all was right as rain. I assumed that the Mr. Color Thinner was all/mostly lacquer thinner, but maybe there’s a little retarder in there? I really like the Mr. Surfacer products, and the 1200 worked great as a primer. I’ll probably give the 1000 a shot as a primer too; got a bottle of that on my shelf as well. Fortunately, it wasn’t too bad to brush off the webbing, and all looks good now. Thanks again for the help! Jon [:D]
Jon,
Glad to be of some help. So far, I have only used the 1000 as a primer and really like it. Saw no reason to use the 1200. As far as thinning goes, I found that a drop or two could make all the difference in the world.
Chuck B.
BTW guys, Mr Surfacer 1200 + Mr.Color Thinner + A few drops Mr. Retarder… is the perfect combination.
You know, I’ve got a bottle of Golden brand retarder, but it says that it’s for acrylics. I wonder if a few drops of it might work. Of course, Mr. Color Thinner and Surfacer are lacquer based I think, so maybe only the Mr. Retarder would work? Whaddayathink? Thanks again! [:)]
If you’re an armor builder and want to recreate rough texture you can pour liquid cement all over the model and then stipple the surface with a very short paintbrush (you can cut the hairs of an old paintbrush; the point is to make it short and hard). This technique leads to excellent results and you don’t have to go online searching for Mr. Surfacer.
jcfay, go for the all Mr.Surfacer combo. their all laquer based![:)] give it a go and see what happens. i really like this technique. the Mr.S 1200 is very fine and wont cover up detail, even those very light scratches!
Wish I had read this before turning my workbench into Charlotte’s Web. [banghead] Kinda fitting given I am building a P-61. [:D]
Quagmyre - sorry to hear that there is another casualty of the Mr. Surfacer spider web phenomenon. It’s actually happened to me since the original post as well, and I think that I just have to make sure that there is more than enough thinner (I’m using Mr. color thinner and a drop or two of Mr. retarder as well) and also that the airbrush is very clean as well, needle and all (I think that if there is any residue on the needle than it can cause the surfacer/thinner to gum up on the needle and perhaps become web-like). I also think fiddling with the air pressure is also a factor, but I haven’t figured out exactly where it should be. Fortunately, the webs wipe off very easily, but you do have to hit those areas with a bit of sandpaper and then more primer. Please let me know if you figure out the secret!
Jon
How fine of a finish can you achieve with the 1000 and 1200? DO you need to sand it after spraying before the color coat, or can you just spray the colors on it?
The finish is very fine. No need to sand afterwards.
Jon - I ditched the Mr. Surfacer 1200 after trying to thin it with more regular lacquer thinner than 50%. So I went down to the LHS and purchased a can of the aerosol Mr. Surfacer 1000, thinking it would be a quick fix since I wanted to get the fist coat of paint on this weekend. The 1000 in a can gets all over the place, but like the 500 covers scratches and evens things out. I had to use it outside thought because of the fumes and mess.
I’d like to get the mixture on the 1200 right in the future… I really think 1200 is the best option for a primer.
I gave up (at least for a little while) on the Mr. Surfacer, and instead took a bottle of the Tamiya primer (I used the white, but grey is fine too) and decanted it to spray with the airbrush. It worked perfectly. I have just had too many problems with the Mr. Surfacer, but many people use it and don’t have any problems at all! Just my luck, I guess. I’ve tried just spraying out of the can before (at least with Tamiya primer, but not with Mr. Surfacer) but they always put out way too much product for me and lay it on too thick. Once decanted, however, it sprayed on awesome through the brush. So I’ll probably stick with that for the near future.
And yes, no need to sand after applying the Mr. surfacer 1000 and 1200. Lays down a nice, even, flat coat (when it isn’t turning into spider webs!). Anyone out there have a solution?
Jon
I have the same problem before when I mixed Mr. Surfacer and the thinner directly in the paint cup. The problem is Mr. surfacer is much heavier than the thinner and it just sink to the bottom of the cup. The bottom Mr. Surfacer becomes too thick and gives me the spiderweb.
After I pre-mix it in a seperate bottle before pouring them into the paint cup, everything works like a charm.
I have used mr surfacer 500 100 and now 1200 in a spray can, and you can polish out the 1200 glass smooth for NMF paint or as I am doing, figure work. I used to polish the 1000 out as well prior to paint, but now I just spray the 1000 reduced with LT and then go over it with 1200 if I want a super fine finish.
I had the same problem as you all, but I also had the same probelm with Alclad I in the big bottle years ago. I racked it up then to two things: Heat (near 100* low humidity) and the brand of LT I was using. I changed brands and it SEEMED to help, but it may have just been a cooler day as well. I think the retarder is giong to be the way to go and im going to grab myself some. Thanks for the insight!!
David