The thread about your favorite WW2 Aircraft got me thinking about my favourite, the P61 Black Widow. And its the massive firepower that does it for me. the destructive capabilities of 4 x .50 cal plus 4 x 20mm Hispano cannon really tips the scale IMHO. So, whats the most destructive WW2 aircraft, either plane on plane, or plane Vs ground target. (Hint, no bombers, and all armament must be able to fire simultaneously at a target) Anyone care to up the ante ?
You said no bombers, but the B-25H model had 10 forward firing 50s and a 75mm cannon in nose. When used in an anti shipping role in the Pacific they were devastating.
Yeah sorry, I should have been more specific. I said No bombers, in the sense that I didnt want someone to come along and say “well the B-29 dropped an atomic device, therefore its the most lethal” etc. Sure looks like the B25-H would take some beating.
never thought much about it till I saw the show on the history channel. My vote goes with the HO 229.
gary
Mosquito Mk.XVII with the 57mm Molins gun and 8x60 pound rockets ?
Sure, it’s a smaller calibre weapon compared to the 75mm in the B-25H, but it was self-loading and had a rate of fire up to 55 rounds per minute (ammo capacity was 22 (?) rounds) whereas the 75mm in the B-25H was manually loaded.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M00f5RxhxLY
I’ll also mention the Aussie built Beaufighter Mk.21 with 4x 20mm and 4x 0.50 Cal MG’s, and the He 219 with up to 6 forward firing 20mm and two upward firing 30mm cannon
The Me 262 with standard 4x30mm cannon and 24 spin-stabilised R4/M 55mm rockets would probably be one of the most lethal bomber killers.
Air-to-air rockets weren’t very lethal in the sense that the pilots could seldom hit anything but the ground with them…
Like Phil H I would also go for the Beau (wasn’t called “Whispering death” for nothing) or the Mossie.
Should it have come to fruition the Sukhoi Su-8 would have been the hands down winner & would sure have mashed the Panzer’s with;
4 x 45mm (400rpm (each)),
9 x 7.62mm (1,800rpm (each)),
1 x 12.7mm (900ish rpm).
It’s a pretty impressive fit out, but even with that lot weight of fire on target pales into comparison with this piece of equipment (VW & Geezer for comparison only);
Mosquito Mk.XVII with the 57mm Molins gun and 8x60 pound rockets ?
Sure, it’s a smaller calibre weapon compared to the 75mm in the B-25H, but it was self-loading and had a rate of fire up to 55 rounds per minute (ammo capacity was 22 (?) rounds) whereas the 75mm in the B-25H was manually loaded.
[dto:] The anti-shipping footage from Norway really expresses the lethality of Britain’s DeHavilland Mosquito. (Thanks milairjunkie for setting the origin of the Mosquito straight for me[Y])
‘The Stormvik IL II is essencial to the Red army and bread and air’ ~ Joseph Stalin
Russia’s flying tank deserves credit as well. German’s nicknamed the IL II ‘Black death’ with respect and fear. One aircraft of the type made it back from a sortie with over 200 hits from various weapons, impressive for a single engine fighter.
With pleasure - it’s one of the, if not THE best British aircraft from this era in my opinion, that’s why I couldn’t let it go.
Impressive as the XVIII “Tsetse fly” was, the VI wasn’t to shabby either with it’s 4 x 20mm cannon & 4 x .303 MG’s
And not to forget, up to 1000 pounds of bombs and rockets (on the Mk.VI)
Am I smelling a hardcore Mossie fan here?
Musta been a nickname coined by Panzertruppen… Luftwaffe Experten called it, “The Cement Bomber”… I like that one…
On the subject of German nicknames for Allied aircraft… While I actually heard the above from a former Lufwaffe fighter pilot, in the course of our conversation he also stated that he never heard anyone (other than Americans after the war) refer to the P-38 as “Der Gabelshwanze Teufel” (Fork-tailed Devil")… They were simply “Blitzen”… Another Luftwaffe nickname was “Dicke Autos” for B-17s & B-24s (Fat cars)…
However, I digress…
Back on topic, I’ve mulled it over, and in my humble opinion, I think the A-26B would be leading the pack on the side of the Allies… With 8 .50s in the nose, and in later models of the B, an additional 3 in each wing (plus a bomb-load) and four additional turreted .50s ( two that could engage a separate ground target) made it a pretty lethal attack aircraft… Also taking into consideration that it went on to fight in two more wars with a service career that went into the 1960s (with the B-26K COINvader), that’s the one that gets m’ vote…
Hmm… the A-26 in all its service length and glory runs the jagged edge between fighter and bomber. Its service in Vietnam can classify it as both bomber, then re-designated a fighter to allow operation from Taiwanese airfields. I respect and admire the aircraft for being a perfect design and serving in 3 conflicts over 3 decades. A modeler would be working a life time to represent each variant.
Like the DeHavilland Mosquito designation depends on the configuration of the nose, either a spot and window for a crewman to aim bombs or extra weapons load for attack missions.
To further catergorize this thread one must divide the applicants into either one or two engine aircraft and the amount of crew required to operate it.
1 engine 1 pilot: Tempest Typhoon armed with rockets and 4 x 20 mm canons
1 engine 2 crew: IL 2 Stormovik
2 engine 1 pilot : P-38 Lightning
2 engine 2 crew: DeHavilland Mosquito
2 engine 2+ crew: A-26 B configured for ground attack
Hans, have you ever flown the A-26? I hired the Waco A-26 for our airshow at LAFB in 05. What a beautiful bird that was. It was my number one targeted act as the 86th FTS descended from the B-26 equipped 86th BS of WWII.
one engine / one pilot (prop)… TA152H
one engine / one pilot (jet) …He162
twin engine / one pilot (prop)…P38 Lightening
Twin engine / one pilot (jet)…ME262
twin engine / crew of two (jet)…He219
high speed light bomber…A26 Invader
gary
| Hans von Hammer replied on 02-16-2010 11:15 | Reply More |
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Air-to-air rockets weren’t very lethal in the sense that the pilots could seldom hit anything but the ground with them…
Herr Von Hammer:
The original post mentioned either air to air or air to ground.
Firing a spread of 24 air to air rockets-even unguided- using the Revi gun-sight for aiming at a B-17 or B-24 formation box is going to hit targets.
Per http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Messerschmitt_Me_262
Quote: “Me 262s equipped with R4M rockets would approach from the side of a bomber formation, where their silhouettes were widest, and while still out of range of the 12.7 mm (.50 in) guns, fire a salvo of rockets. The high explosive warhead of only one or two of these rockets was capable of downing even the famously rugged B-17; a strike on an enemy aircraft meant its total annihilation.[25] Although this tactic was effective, it came too late to have a real effect on the war.”
No specification was made regarding widespead use of a weapon system.
Our aircrews were very fortunate that the Germans were unable to field only a small percentage of the advanced systems they created.
That’s cause it was the Japanese that called the P-38 the “Fork-tailed Devil”
Back on topic, what about the B-25J with the gun nose? Eight .50 cal in the nose, two on each side below the cockpit, and then the top turret could be turned to fire forward for a total of 14 .50 cals on target (which where usually ground targets)
Regarding use of rockets by Me-262’s: Monogram’s publication “Jet Planes of the Third Reich” mentions JG-7 using them in combat but doesn’t specify Allied bomber losses.
This website does:
http://www.stormbirds.com/warbirds/history2.htm
Quote:
“Whatever the tactics used, the sheer number of allied planes involved made the jet attacks almost irrelevant. For instance, on March 18th III./JG 7 sent up 37 Me 262s to engage a force of 1,221 American bombers and 632 escorting fighters. This action marked the first time the new R4M rockets were used by the Me 262. In the end 12 bombers and 1 fighter were claimed with the loss of 3 Me 262s. Even on their biggest day, JG 7 flew 38 sorties, knocking down 14 US and British bombers and 2 fighters with a loss of 4 Me 262s. Their best efforts yielded less than a 1% loss for the Allies. Thus, we see the pattern that marked most German efforts in the latter part of the war. The Germans had many effective weapons but they were no match for the overwhelming Allied numerical superiority.”
Those losses were accomplished in spite of the enormous number of Allied escorting fighters.
Closest I got to flying in “Spirit of Waco” was a cockpit check after hangin’ around the ramp on the Monday morning after Airsho doing some wing-wiping… I always made it a point to still be there on Mondays (usually nursing a hangover from the Sunday nite “Airsho Survivor’s Party”, since most of the birds leave for home then, and there’s no one around but pilots, crew, and us ramp-rats…