As I mentioned in a recent post, I am working on Tamiya’s Mobelwagen for dupes’ 1000 Roadwheels GB. Since I know many of you don’t stroll through that forum a lot, I figured I’d open up this thread to be able to post some WIP shots and get some feedback.
Before any pictures (so far I’m just putting on the running gear) I do have a question:
The earliest Mobelwagens were built on the chassis of Panzer IVs that had been damaged. That being said, how likely is it that some of them would have zimmeret? I do my research on the cheap (internet searches for the most part) and I cannot find a picture that clearly suggests the presence of zimm, but I did find a drawing:
somewhere in a pile of books I have a picture of one that still has a little bit of zimmerit left on the lower hull sides (close to the road wheels), and maybe a little on the front of the upper hull.
I’d say that that particular pattern is more than likely UN-likely.
It’s strange–almost every photo of the other two FlaK PZ-IV vehicles out there–the Ostwind and the Whirbelwind seem to have zimmerit, but I can’t recall a photo of a Mobelwagen with it. Lemme check my “Panzer Wrecks” and see if there’s any in there…?
The Mobelwagen wasn’t built on reconditioned Pz IV hulls aside from the first prototypes. They were built on purpose built hulls due to all the rearrangements that were needed to accomodate the installation of the 3.7cm Flak gun and those hulls were taken from the regular Pz IV production run at the time they were built. Thus, no zim, because they didn’t fall into the category of vehicles requiring zim at the time of their manufacture. [;)]
The Ostwind and Wirbelwind on the other hand were built, in some cases, on reconditioned hulls since the modifications for them essentially centered around the turret ring and the fitting of the AA turret in place of the regular gun-tank turret. That’s why you will see zim on some, but not all, of them vs. the Mobelwagen which didn’t receive zim as a rule.
Your going to have to clarify things here such as which Tamiya MobelWagen you are talking about? There is the 20mm Flakvierling MobelWagen and the 3.7cm Flak43 MobelWagen.
Glad it helped Karl! I’m a student just like you and learn something new myself all the time…I picked up that particular piece of information when I was researching my Mobelwagen build a few months back and it got filed away in the ol’ permanent memory bank as a result. There’s a lot I don’t know though (Tigers and Panthers as a specific example) and have been wrong from time to time as well so it’s always a good idea to have multiple sources of information to draw from. [:D]
You are, of course, correct Mikey. I should have been more specific. I guess I just assumed that if you looked at the drawing I linked to you would draw the logical conclusion that I was talking about the 3.7cm Flak 43 version…
Alrighty! That is a good bit of information. Thanks Bill. The online refs I looked at seem to have it wrong (or perhaps I should say they are not specific enough). So… bummer… no cool zimm pattern for me… then again, I could claim artistic license [:-^]
Not trying to contradicte you bill, could simply be down to different ref sources. But from what i have found out while doing my Italeri Ostwind is that production models were built on purpose build Ausf J hulls. They couldn’t use reconditioned hulls as the turret ring had to be moved forward which also meant the radio operators hatch had to be moved forward level with the drivers. And from what i can tell, only the prototype, which was built on an Ausf G hull, had zim.
Very true Bish, that’s why I used the statement of “in some cases” regarding reconditioned hulls. I agree with what you are saying and I think the Wirbelwind is the one where you will see the majority of zim showing up. The fact that we are talking about different vehicles (Mobelwagen, Ostwind, Wirbelwind) in the thread does muddy the waters a bit and I should’ve been clearer in my statement and said something like this:
Mobelwagen w/ Flakvierling: zim on prototype, never entered production
Mobelwagen w/ 3.7cm Flak: no zim on production vehicles
Wirbelwind w/ Flakvierling: zim seen when reconditioned hulls used, not seen on standard hulls
Ostwind w/ 3.7cm Flak: no zim on production vehicles
Well, the study of German armour has to be the most complicated and cunfusing subject i have ever studied. And the referance material doesn’t help, the more you read the worse it gets. But i think how you have just put it is as clear as you can get.
As I promised, I wanted to post a couple of pics of the Mobelwagen I am building for dupes’ 1000 Roadwheels GB. I know a lot of you don’t go into the GB thread much, so here you go.
I have made pretty steady progress, but at this point, don’t have anything spectacular to show - just general WIP shots. I will admit I was going to go with some artistic license and apply the zimm pattern I found on the drawing that I posted on the first page of this. I’d still like to, but time will not allow it… Maybe I’ll build this kit again sometime with the zimm pattern…
Anyways, without further ado:
These next two pics are my only ‘detail’ shots: first to show that I replaced the fender springs with some I made by wrapping copper wire around a paperclip, and second a shot of the RB barrel I am using in place of the kit gun barrel.
As per the usual, I am happy to hear any comments…
Oooo, jbmodels, you foul temptress!!! Why now, WHY!!! [banghead]
Fortunately (or unfortunately, depending on your perspective) the $40 price tag is a little beyond my limit right now… but ohhhhh, boy don’t I want it…
Just posted this over in 1000 Roadwheels and wanted to make sure I continue to try to update guys overhere on my progress. Pretty close to wrapping this one up.
Here are a few shots… The upper hull is simply sitting on the lower.
Sorry that the pics are kind of bleached out - gotta work on my lighting, but the kids were hanging on me while I took these, so haste was a high priority…
Here she is side-on…
Yup, I know there is a ‘blemish’ in the paint on the armor shield. I’ve got to build up the base coat some more, so I’ll handle that when I do…
And from above:
I intend to display it with the front armor plate down, but the other three up, as in these last two shots:
Obviously, it is still missing some important stuff… like that ol’ shootin’ iron… and the shield. Those ought to go on today… depending on my kids, of course…
You know the drill - I like to hear whatever you have to say, particularly if you see something I screwed up…[8-)]
Making good progress on this one! The Mobelwagen actually had three different “modes” for the protective plates to be positioned in. One was the “travel” mode which is the fully vertical position that you have 3 of the 4 sides in at the moment, one was the “protected firing” mode where the sides were partially lowered, and one was hte “full firing” mode where all the plates lay flat. If you’re wanting to show the front plate “down” in order to show it as ready for combat, the other plates should also be modified at least into the "protected firing angle as otherwise the crew wouldn’t have sufficient space to be able to effectively operate the gun. The Tamiya instructions provide the parts and options to choose any one of the three options and the hooked rods are what allows that to happen depending on their position/location. HTH!
I know about the three positions for the armor plate, and I know having the front plate down does not ‘conform’ specifically to any of them, but I am betting that the crews probably did just drop one plate from time to time… even if just to sit on it during a halt for chow during a road march…
I do like the suggestion about putting the other three plates into the ‘protected’ mode - that will definatetly open things up in the gun-bay… I’ll probably do that… thanks… I’ve actually built it so the plates are operational so I can pretty much put them as the mood suits me, although the little support arms on the lower part of the side armor plates are fixed into position.
To be honest, I was thinking of displaying it that way to, on the one hand, make it easier to see the gun, but on the other hand to not take up too much space since I have little room in my display case…
Actually there is a 4th mode to firing and it is ground attack where all the plates were in the protective firing mode but the front plate was notched to allow full depression while the plates were up. It isn’t shown in the instructions but there is a photo in Panzerwrecks that shows this configuration.
