Mike Estocin was awarded the MOH for actions in the air on 20 and 26 April 1967 while flying Iron Hand missions against North Vietnam while assigned to VA-192. He was downed durng the latter mission in A-4E NM 208 Bu. No. 151073. The aircraft he flew on 20 April’s action was “severely damaged” according to his MOH citation. Was it the same aircraft? Could it have been NM 207 Bu.No. 151054?
Also what was the most likely warload carried? Shrikes are mentioned, but Iron Hand loadouts varied from what I have been able to find. What other ordnance was carried? Can anybody help here? I have not yet been able to dig up this info and plan on building a 1/32 Skyhawk from VA-192 and would really like to do his mount, preferably from the 20 April 67 strike.
I believe the Iron Hand loadout would be either 4 Shrikes (1 on each pylon) or 2 shrikes (one each on the outer pylons) and 4 Rockeyes (2 on TERs on each inner pylon) .
There’s a useful loadout chart for the A-4 here:
http://a4skyhawk.org/8e/weaps-data/a4e-usmc-weaps.htm
Iron Hand on Skyhawks was carried out with Shrikes and other possible weaps included Slicks, Snakes, SUU-30 CBU, Mk 20 CBU, LAU-10, with a tank on the centerline
he definitely had at least 2 Shrikes on each of the days you mention,Hancock Skyhawks during the same time period were using Shrikes on the outboard pylons, on LAU-34, and SUU-30 pairs on TER on each innerwing, with a center tank
also, the April 20th photo shows such damage that I am sure it was not repaired in time for April 25th,some of the fuselage skin is burned through to the engine on the port side in the photo in Ginter’s book, taken after the landing
Yes, I was thinking for a load out of: Shrikes outboard pylons, Mk.20s in a slant load on TERs on the inboard pylons or single Mk.20s on the inboard pylon, and a centerline fuel tank.
There is a photo for his arcraft of April 20th? I would love to see that photo!!! I suspect that if it was indeed “severe damage” as listed on his citation that it could not be 151073/NM 208 that he flew on the 26th. And doing a bit of research on 151054/NM 207 reveals that it was sent to NAS Atsugi on 28 April 67, picked up by VA-93 in June 67, VMA-211 in July 67, and lost that month. Does this sound feasable for having been severly damaged on the 20th and repaired enought to be sent to Atsugi a week later?
do you have the Ginter A-4E/F book?, that is where the photo is
I bet it went to Atsugi on the crane, either right off the Tico, depending on the Line Chops,or onto a transport for surface transport
it is possible that they patched it up enough for flying into Atsugi, but, it wouldn’t be for a very long flight, they would want it at least as short a flight as the Hangar Queen Recert flights, short in both time and distance
somewhere, and I don’t remember where, there are Vietnam In-Chop/Out-Chop tables for the Line Periods for each carrier,maybe in the ship section of the Navy Historical Center’s page?
I looked for my copies,and don’t seem to see them near the top of any of my stacks,it might be time for one of those “sort and re-file” days/weeks, lol
Rex
oh,and one little Navair Nit-Pick item
if you use any bombs, they wouldn’t be Thermal Protected yet on that cruise,all three fires hadn’t happened that caused TP coatings to be applied, yet,so, only one Yellow stripe on the nose, not two
Yes, I knew those points, but thanks for the refresher sir 
That coat would be noticable in 1/32.
always willing to help,if I ever seem “cryptic and mean”,just slap an earhole and I will get nicer, lol
OK, I could have this wrong but here’s what I recall…
the 20 April mission, he appears to have had enough stores to take out 4 targets. This could be more “citation heroics”–the MoH citation states that on that flight, he personally took out three targets, then he was hit, then he returned to launch his last Shrike. IIRC, the loadout for Iron hand was most commonly a pair of Shrikes on the outboard stations, and a TER on each inboard station, each carrying two Rockeyes. The outer and lower stations on the TER would be used to carry the Rockeye, as the inner station would interfere with the MLG doors. It would not have been common for these flights to carry 4 Shrikes–remember, they were flying Alpha’s twice a day, up north, and of course “there was no bomb shortage”…they would burn through their stores of Shrikes on station pretty fast if they used them like that.
On the 26 April flight, I have to refer you to a book, because I cannot seem to recall right now and I do not have a copy of this book handy. “On Yankee Station”, written by Barrett Tillman and CDR John Nichols. Nichols was the MIGCAP pilot for the 26 April flight, and was an eye-witness to LCDR Estocin’s shoot-down. As I remember reading it, he said that the Scooter was hit, rolled inverted, and the centerline tank and both Shrikes punched off. I do not recall him saying anything about any other stores.
Tarn, your words usually loud and clear with me. No worries there. I’ll ask for clarification if my regular confusion pops into visit…
F-8, I am most inclned to go with your read on the loudout on 20 April. I think I have read CDR Nichols witness statement online somewhere in my research for this.
I really do appreciate the knowledge that both of you gents bring on this subject. Do either of you have any opinion on my supposition on MN 207 being the 20 April mount?
I looked at this, twice, lol
www.a4skyhawk.org/…/va192-a4-unit-assign.htm
I can’t tell from that if you are right about 151054 for April 20th, or if 152076 was the mount from the 20th, but stricken on the same day as he was shot down on the 26th while in 151073 (there was also a Scoot stricken on the 25th)
the determining factor would be finding out how many Scooters VA-192 lost on the 26th, I guess
Rene Francillon had a book back a long time ago,called Tonkin Gulf Yacht Club,he listed losses in each carrier’s cruise chapter,and in a table form,I believe that info is at the NHC online for free, also
googling that didn’t work, sorry, all I get are links to purchase the book
also, about the number of sites taken out,I believe the accounts say that his flight took out the sites on the 20th, not just his aircraft
Rex
Yes, that list was one of those I was getting my information from.
Too bad there is not a site that has the unit logs listed and posted.
oh and in my page flippin’ and web clickin’ , I ran into something really strange
in photos you can clearly see that -192 went on that cruise with A-4E standard models*,but, in Osprey’s booklet, they painted up a Super Echo as being the one we lost him in,which is a huge error
the aircraft types weren’t operated by the Navy in mixed batches,they had Echos, Super Echos or Foxtrots, not a mixture
also, I just noticed that -192 was Not one of the 10 USN/USMC squadrons that followed the 1967 directives change for moving the Insignia decal forward (as on an A-4C), they kept their decals in the rear,which is where all 10 squadrons that complied or started to comply ended up moving their’s back to after only a few months, when the directive was changed back again
(*I am going to stick with the term “standard models” on this site, this is a family site, after all, and the USMC nickname for those was only used when there were more than one type of Echo around)
Rex
Oh now you have me curious as to the nickname… I presume the “super echo” was the one with the humpback?
That Osprey error is one reason I use profiles as a last resort of reference.
Stik, I will private message you the nickname
but, you will see that it was logical as can be, lol
Rex
Got the message. And yes the nickname was quite logical. Great stuff…