To hear a VP of Engineering to say that it is normal for the pressure gauge reading to drop 7 psi at a 20 psi setting is upsetting. It gets worse when he said that the reading changed with airflow. He probably does not know what a diaphram regulator is supposed to work.
Drop 10% when pulling the trigger. Not so good a design. Drop 35% and considered normal? That is defective design or defective equipment.
Did Mr. Robisch understand how much damage he just did to the reputation of Badger?
The second sentence in Mr. Robisch’s reply is technically correct - for the compressor - but doesn’t address the regulator issue. Look at the specs on any industrial compressor and you’ll find something like ‘2.7 CFM at 40PSI and 1.8 CFM at 90PSI’ [numbers for illustration only]. It’s a shame he didn’t address regulator pressure drop.
Bick, you may have misunderstood the specification of a tools compressor, or any compressor. The compressor motor provides a certain amount of power (rated in horsepower, but havs nothing to do with a horse [H]). The numbers you quoted is typical of a no name brand one-horsepower compressor. It can compress 1.8 cubic feet of air up to 90 psi per minute, but can compress more, 2.7 cubic feet, of air to only 40 psi per minute. It is a simple conservation of energy equation. It takes work to compress air. The compressed air has higher density at higher pressure. The amount of power you can get from the compressor to drive your air tool is more less constant. For example, if you need 5 CFM at 90 psi, you better get a name brand 2-HP compressor.
There 2 reasons that pressure from an airbrush compressor drops:
You just cannot beat the law of physics and the law of economics. Quality does not come cheap. Fortunately for modelers, you can find high quality, name brand airbrush compressor for under US$200 today. Not bad compared to the price of model kits we paid for.
I was hoping that the Badger TC910 is one of them when I read your posts, but then my hope was dashed when I read Mr. Robisch’s reply. You cannot expect Badger to back you up if the pressure drops 7 psi in a 20 psi setting because it is normal. [:S]
Keilau,
With all due respect - relax, Badger stands behind anything it makes or distributes 100% +.
Mr. Robisch is sending a general reply to the email we received, stating that a pressure fall off is normal (which it is), and is not identifying specific levels of acceptable drop in flow for a compressor/regulator. I am confident if Herman more closely evaluated the situation he would agree something is amiss with such a notable pressure drop. That being said, I am not an engineer, but even I know that there is a variance in the levels of air pressure fall off dependent on the type of airbrush and the variance of nozzles in use on an airbrush at any given time. The compressor I carry in my tool box and use during my IPMS, NMRA, and AMPS seminars drops anywhere from 2-12% depending on whihc airbrush I have connected to at anytime. Please don’t make more of this than is there. The more important part of Herman’s reply was his advise on how to set the air regaulator with the airbrush trigger depressed. If anyone here doesn’t know Badger cares more about quality and customer satisfaction than Badger - than they are not familiar with our company or our way of standing behind the products that bare our name.
I am glad that Michaels allowed the compressor exchange, if they had not and our further assistance was required in correcting the concern - I assure you we would have provided it.
I’ve been reading this thread with some interest & though better about getting involved, but…
Irregardless of the reasons for it happening & irregardless of weather it should happen, to experience an indicated regulator pressure drop from an airbrush compressor when triggering is perfectly normal & the airflow requirement of the airbrush/nozzle being used will have a dramatic impact on that drop.
I’ve just checked a bunch of compressors from various manufacturers (Sparmax, Sil-Air & “generic”) & found that they are generally loosing around about 7>8psi on the guage while triggering with an 0.4mm nozzle & about 2>3psi with an 0.2mm nozzle…
Considering the compressor were of variant performance, format & design, the results were quite consistent, also keep in mind that both Sparmax & Sil-Air produce some of the finest airbrush specific compressors available.
As has been said, weather the pressure is set with air flowing or not is irrelevant as long as the method is consistent, the pressure drop is also irrelevant as long as the user gets the airflow they require…
Ken, It is reassuring to hear this directly from the boss. Thank you.
I have no reason to doubt your measurement. But I am very diappointed at the deterioration of the quality at Sparmax and Silentaire.
In the past 4 years, I have tried several airbrush compressors from various sources. Even the cheap ones from China will not drop more than 2-3 psi in pressure reading when the airbrush trigger was pushed. I tried them with airbrushes from 0.2 mm nozzle to 0.74 mm. The airbrush used did not seem to be a factor because the airflow from a single airbrush are all small compared to the airbrush compressor capacity.
For the Paasche DA400 and Sparmax TC-2000, it never drop more than 1 psi. MikeV had the same result with his old Badger MillionAir. I will be very interested in hearing from an Iwata Powerjet Pro user to see how his perform in this respect.
I purchased a pressure regulator from a airbrush seller on Ebay late last year. When I connect it to the same Paasche DA400 I have, the control setting was sensitive. And it dropped 3 psi in pressure reading when the airbrush trigger was pushed. I am convinced that it is not a true diaphram regulator.
Of course, I am not in the business of making or selling airbrush equipments. The tests I conducted were on very small number of samples and were not scientifically controlled.
Peace. Enjoy the compressor you have. Make more models.
There is no deterioration that I’m aware of.
That agrees with what I found for an 0.2mm nozzle with Sparmax, Sil-Air & “generic”.
As far as I’m aware, the Powerjet Pro uses the same motor / head combination as the Sparmax TC2000/AC500/TC620 compressors – which displayed similar drops to those quoted.
Do the length, bore & quality of the hose being used not have a direct impact on the indicated regulator pressure as soon as the trigger is pressed & a change from static to dynamic pressure reading occurs?
Yes. I do. I wish I could.
As a side note to the above, it should be noted that Sparmax makes the Iwata (Jet) compressors. They are a solid compressor, just as I believe our units are as well. (Personally, I think the Iwata units are a little pricey and am not sure why they are as expensive as they are).
That being said, I have first hand knowledge of my company’s product integrity, and I respect the integrity of Iwata-Medea regarding product quality and support, which to me should be given fair consideration when selecting a compressor (and/or airbrush for that matter). I believe the selection of a product bareing the name of either company is a safe choice - first off because it is likely to be reliable properly performing product, and additionally because if a consumer has a product concern, companies such as ours, Badger/Thayer & Chandler, and Iwata-Medea will stand behind our products and do what we can to provide customer satisfaction.
Yes, I take back the statement about “deterioration of the quality at Sparmax and Silentaire”." It did not happen to the models they sell in the US. Not knowing what the UK distributors do their import to UK. I should not have made that consclusion.
In the US, I usually expect less than 1 psi in pressure reading uncertainty from Silentaire, Iwata or Sparmax. With made-in-China airbrush compressors, up to 3 psi in pressure reading uncertainty is not unusual. All of Them can accommodate a wide range of airbrushes if you pick a reasonably powerful compressor. (This does not apply to UK imports.)
I’m not entirely certain what you mean by UK Imports, so I won’t jump to conclusions.
With the exception of obviously different voltage requirements for different markets & some superficial cosmetic differences, the Sil-Air compressors mentioned are identical to Sil-Air & Sil-Air re-branded units supplied worldwide by Werther, the same also applies to Sparmax & Sparmax re-branded units.
I use $70 compressor from harbor freighter, the pressure drop from 40psi to 15psi when depressing AB tigger. I am ok with it. so your 7 psi is nothing.
Heh - you got what you paid for. Harbor Freight compressors are made in China and tend to be noisy.