Linberg's Captain Kidd - Wappen Von Hamburg FINAL

This post will start the building of Linberg’s "Captain Kidd" a.k.a. “Wappen Von Hamburg” for those that want to follow or are just curious.

Thanks for visiting

Donnie

01-06-06

I pulled out the Linberg’s Captain Kidd or by some refered to as the Wappen Von Hamburg. I guess the reason is that I really enjoyed that Linberg Jolly Roger aka Le Flore. I am in process of choosing the color schemes.
I started to read those directions and I can’t believe some of the color scheme that they are wanting me to use on the deck. Red ! Also, I notice that while the directions are much clearer than the JR aka Le Flore that I just finished, the colors that they want you to do on the Linberg Captain Kidd is quite strange.
If anyone has done the Linberg’s Captain Kidd, I could use a few tips on what paint colors you used for what main parts (Deck, Hull, I can handle the rest). If not, then that is ok as well. I can decide on my own - no biggy !

I just got "The young sea officer’s sheet anchor by Darry Lever and I must say that this is quite a compilation of very techy drawings. It seems very nice as I have only skimmed over so far.

Back to the WVH - I noticed that on what very few ships out there, it seems that dark green for the upper sides of the hull. I know that I can get close, but just curious as to what color others has used on this. Of what I can tell these Testors might work:

  1. Medium Field Green / FS34095
  2. European Geen / FS 34092
  3. Forest Green / FS 34127
    The directions just say green and they say “look at carton of box” but the box has no green to be found. ( I thought this to be a little funny)

Right off the bat, there are alot of weird things with the directions and colors schemes. I don’t think
that I will be painting my deck red as the directions say. I have no idea (as usual) as to what color to choose for the deck here. If anyone gets in on this, it would be helpful to tell me what Testors or Model Masters Color to use.

I know that alot of folks here use various techniques to produce what they want. I am not quite there yet as I still like the simple route I guess (for now).

I did pick up some flat gray primer to paint the larger parts - you all should be proud of me for at least doing this ( I am learning - you know ) - hey with the first one, I just started painting even though it took like 6 coats of white paint before that chocolate colored hull of the JR would not show thru. I thought this time, I would start with a primer and see what happens.
Nope - I do not have an airbrush. Still using brush by hand -

Again, I would like to express my gratitude for those that have given me direction and motivation to help me with that Jolly Roger aka Le Fore.

Donnie

I am not an expert on the subject. However, what I have red is as follows: red color was sometimes used along the inner sides since in battles bloody crew members were not that uncommon.

Would be interesting to hear whether it is legend or myth or does it have any realism?

Regards,
Katzennahrung

Maybe as a note and not directly related to you white paintings: I am used to pre-paint my parts with wood color. It is easier then to get some wheatering: I apply a second paint layer (the color I want at the parts) and let it dry. Then I start mildly sanding at some places and it looks like I had sanded wood due to the underlaying “wooden” surface.

White paints are harder to get right. But if you want a weathered look it is not really essential to get a white area genuine white.

Btw: I state that an aibrush (though never used any) is not that important when assembling historic sailing ships. When you start scrutinizing your kit further you will see that the manufactures tried to simulate wood structure and that kind of details. A brush painting is highly wlecommed and gives likely a more realistic “weathered” look.

But it is just my opinion.

Looking forward to this build, Donnie ! I don’t use an airbrush on smaller ship kits at all…rattlecans and brushes work much better.

Instead of using just one type of green, I would recommend using all three in different areas…the wood of the ships took the paint in different ways, and the multi-hue effect is quite realistic.

Red decks? They were just going for the kids with that one…go with the standard wood deck, though painting the rails red might be a nice touch. Only problem there is, you end up with a “christmas tree” effect (red and green). Maybe black would be better.

Regarding decks…since you have primed the plastic, it is really easy to do a woodgrain finish. Pick up some coloured pencils or pastel pencils at a local art/crafts shop (get a variety pack for about 5 bucks). Paint the primed deck with rattlecan sand…then flat black…then brown. (thin spray coats). Wait until dry between each coat. After all of this, take some fine grain sandpaper and lightly sand off the top to expose different colours. Seal with clear flat. Attack it with the coloured pencils or pastels, each plank being different. I use brown, yellow, white, purple, and pink often…you just need to tint the planks, not completely cover them. Then seal with clear SATIN. Viola…wood planks. This sounds like a lot of work, but it really doesn’t take too long (mostly in waiting for paint to dry), and you end up with people saying “how come that deck looks like real wood?” alot.

pics?

greg

I’m not going to be able to help much with this one. I know absolutely nothing about the navy of 17th-century Hamburg. I do know that the Wappen von Hamburg is quite a popular model subject - especially in Europe. I’m not sure why that’s the case. The fact that there are so many models of her suggests that there’s either a good, detailed set of contemporary plans or a good, detailed contemporary model of her in some archive or museum somewhere. Michel - can you help?

Her overall shape and look are those of a ship-of-the-line, but she usually seems to be referred to as either a “heavy frigate” or a “convoy ship.” Actually that makes sense. The word “frigate” had a much broader meaning in the mid-seventeenth century than it did later, and I gather she spent most of her career escorting Hamburger merchantmen around the Baltic and North Seas. I imagine the warship fleet of Hamburg was too small to form a line of battle.

Taubman Plans Service ( www.taubmansonline.com ) offers a set of plans for this ship, but they’re quite expensive. A Google search, however, turned up a surprising number of references to her. The best I found is this: http://www.all-model.com/list1/hamburg/hamburg.html . It’s a set of small-scale, but well-rendered plans. There are five separate drawings: a set of hull lines, an overall outboard profile (including sails and rigging), a sail and running rigging plan, a standing rigging plan, and that rarest of all finds: a belaying point plan. The originals presumably were in German, and a few of the names of rigging lines are garbled a little. In general, though, these look like nice drawings - quite useful for this particular project. They can be printed out directly from the website.

At the top of the page is a button labeled “Heavy frigate ‘Wappen von Gamburg [sic]’ Free download.” I clicked on that with considerable enthusiasm, but the results weren’t satisfactory. I was invited to save the download to my hard drive, and spent about five minutes waiting for that to happen. The computer told me it had saved the file, all right, but when I tried to open it I just got a mass of question marks. I guess I don’t have the necessary software program. I’ll try it on the office computer tomorrow. Maybe a member who’s more of a computer whiz than me can help. (Michel - are your there?)

Since the two sail plans both show the sails set, they also show the yards in their raised positions. Unless you give the model set sails (which I don’t recommend), I strongly recommend putting the yards in their lowered positions. On board a ship without sails (or with her sails furled), the lower yards, the spritsail yard, and the big lateen yard on the mizzenmast would stay in the positions shown on the drawings. The fore, main, and mizzen topsail yards would be lowered to a foot or two above the lower mast caps. The spritsail topsail yard also would be lowered to the cap, and the fore and main topgallants would be lowered to a foot or so above the topmast caps. People who’ve spent a lot of time looking at ship models will tell you that a model with lowered yards looks a great deal better.

That Google search turned up quite a few photos of models of the ship. The quality of those models, however, varies considerably. (Beware of anything built from a Corel wood kit. There seems to be a fairly general consensus that of all the continental European plank-on-bulkhead kit manufacturers, Corel is, in terms of historical reasearch, the worst.) Quite a few photos of Wappen von Hamburg models also are posted over at the Drydock Models website. The quality of those models also is variable, but they’ll give some idea of how other modelers have handled the color scheme.

Darcy Lever’s Young Officer’s Sheet Anchor is a great source for ship modelers. Do remember, though, that it deals quite specifically with the British Royal Navy, and dates from the late eighteenth century. (Some modern reprints contain updates that cover changes in practice through the mid-nineteenth century, and in the merchant service.) Don’t be surprised if Lever’s information conflicts with the rigging plans of the Wappen von Hamburg.

I’m inclined to agree with cthulhu about red paint on the decks. It’s not totally inconceivable. Red was a popular color for interior woodwork on board ships of the period. (The traditional explanation is that the red was intended to camouflage blood, but recent research has shed doubt on that. It seems more likely that red paint was simply a good, affordable, reasonably durable and waterproof primer.) Eighteenth-century British ships often had red orlop decks. (H.M.S. *Victory’*s orlop is painted red.) And I think I’ve bumped into a few other references to red deck planking - especially in continental warships of the seventeenth century. But the idea of red weather decks in a big ship like the Wappen von Hamburg seems pretty bizarre. I certainly wouldn’t paint the decks of such a model red unless I had considerably more evidence than a Lindberg instruction sheet.

I agree completely with those who say you don’t need an airbrush for this sort of work. I’ve got an airbrush, but I rarely if ever use it on sailing ships. (Come to think of it, I rarely use it - period.) I know some people do like airbrushes for this kind of model, but to my eye an airbrushed finish is simply out of place on a sailing ship. I also think a good brush technique is an essential part of the arsenal of anybody seriously interested in sailing ship modeling - even if he or she does use an airbrush for some purposes.

Primer isn’t necessary to make modern hobby paints stick to styrene. Using a sprayed coat of grey as a basis for a white finish coat is, however, an excellent idea. Modern hobby paints give excellent coverage, but covering dark brown plastic with white paint remains a challenge.

There are no “right” or “wrong” shades of color in this part of the modeling world. (Thank goodness.) My suggestion would be to take a look at some of those photos of other modelers’ Wappen von Hamburgs, and combine their ideas about colors with your own taste. It may have been established that the ship had dark green trim, but nobody’s going to tell you that a particular shade of dark green is “wrong.”

You might want to look into the range of acrylic paints sold by Model Shipways (available through Model Expo: www.modelexpoonline.com ). Those colors were formulated specifically for sailing ships, by people who knew what they were doing. The Testor’s “Acryl” line also includes some sailing ship colors (including such things as “Hull Tallow,” which would look great on the bottom of a ship like this one). Unfortunately not all Testor’s racks include the ship colors. (The one in my local hobby shop doesn’t; the nearest shop with a full range of Testor’s colors is more than a hundred miles away. Sob.) But if your local dealer has them, they’re certainly worth a look. If not, don’t despair. As you’ve suggested, the ranges of paints formulated for aircraft, tanks, and cars has plenty to offer the ship modeler.

Hope this helps a little. Good luck. That kit has the potential to produce a fine model.

Thank you Mr.Tilley. You replies are always complete with plenty of detailed info !

Donnie [:)]

This time I will remember about the yards being lowered as I will do thm fureled again most likley. Also, thanks for mentioning those links too.

Glad to help. One other thought. The standard source on rigging ship models of this period is Dr. R.C. Anderson’s The Rigging of Ships in the Days of the Spritsail Topmast. I don’t know how deeply Anderson goes into German practice, but he does consider continental methods at some length. (The Wappen von Hamburg, to my decidedly non-Germanic eye, has a distinctly Dutch look to her. I suspect Dutch rigging practices would in general be applicable to her.) I believe the book is currently available in a low-priced paperback edition from dealers like Model Expo. Highly recommended.

Well, I am way underway with this new project, and since I am doing the cannons first, I notice that I am having to cut each cannon away from the sprue. It is rather messy as the part has alot of heavy plastic that I have to cut away to get the cannons off. This ship has 56 cannons. Some cannon / carriages are already molded as one piece.

Donnie

Well underway with the Deck and Cannons:

On the Deck, this is what I done (thanks to everyone that offered suggestions)
3 coats of paint.
First coat used Model Masters #4249 #4 Brown
Second coat used Model Masters #4735 Wood
Third, I went back to the brown and painted a few individual planks. Didn’t get facy, they will get comvered up again.
Forth coat, used Model Masters #4697 Tan for final coat.
Lightly sanded surfaces to desired effect.

On the Cannons:
I used Testors #1166 Flat Brown for carriages
Testors #1149 Flat Black
Wheels of carriage Floquil #818656 Iron Black (I know it will not get seen, but I enjoyed it [:)]

Great wood graining effect ! This should be a stunning ship !

what I love most of that ship and its companion “jolly roger” is that, apart from being magnificently detailed models, they are perhaps among the most useful sailing hulls ever produced in styrene. jolly roger/vestale is a prime example of the classic 18th century frigate and can be built or converted to represent a frigate of any european nation. Wappen von Hamburg is another fine example of a standart dutch designed 17th century two decker and can be converted into a ship of the any nation save britain and france. they are among my top-ten candidates for most succesful plastic ship kits ever [2c]

Found problem with Cannon-carriage assembly for those that are interested in this in the future. I found that according to the directions, two cannons should be outfitted at the front of ship, however both will not fit (even though one cannon is smaller). I found that the mounting hole is placed too far back and it interfers with the placements. Below is an image that I edit to show problem. Later I plan to most likely not to drill a hole, but to remove the mounting pin on bottom of carriage and find another way to mount assembly.

I know that there are spots that need some touch up paint from the sanding, but the emphasis is on the ‘headboard’ (green, gold, and brown)- sorry, but don’t know the nautical terms.

Looks mighty nice so far. This kit - unlike any of the smaller Revell or Airfix ones - gives the viewer that distinctive view of the row of guns, complete with carriages. When the model’s finished, you’ll be able to look through the stern windows and get a “sailor’s eye view” of each deck.

The part in the lower picture is called (in English; I have no idea of the German term for it) the beakhead bulkhead. (The beakhead is the little bit of the lower deck that projects ahead of the beakhead bulkhead.) The one in the upper picture (assuming the photo is taken looking aft) is the rail at the break of the quarterdeck.

Thank you Mr. Tilley.

I meant to include the paint that I used for people that might be interested:
On the Beakheads (bulkheads):
Model Masters #4235 Flight Deck Brown for brown trim
Model Masters #1764 Euro Dark Green For main wood panels
Testors #1144 Gold for ornaments figures

I ran test color strips to decide which green I liked. The green is a like a blend of pine green and blue green. I like it myself.

Donnie

Looking VERY good ! Like the colour choices, too…really set off from each other, for good contrast…

More Deck Photos - continue using same paints as metioned before.

Donnie

Everything looks great.Are you going to put any rigging on the cannon?Or will that be to difficult when you put it in the hull?

Rod

To answer your question honestly - I hate to say this, but at present, I do not know anything about rigging a cannon unless I do some research on some books that I have purchased recently under the advice of Mr. Tilley.
Another point is that I am afraid that it would be too tedious task to perform since it is so tiny of parts. I am sure that it can be done, however, but I think about the law of dimishing returns if I were to undertake rigging of the cannons.
To agree with your point, as a matter of fact, I did entertain that idea ! [^]
As I am thinking about it, your are correct in that some of the cannons will be exposed more. I am still thinking about that Jolly Roger with all the cannons hid mostly.
I might give it some more thought !

Thank you
Donnie

I have studied this Hull and I do not know what to do about the color scheme. I have seen several pictures on the net about the hull in general, but I am at a loss.

The Hull on this boat requires a little different scheme that what I have done so far.

If any one has any suggestions, I would take the advise.

I have the letters A - J showing which ones I need to decide.

Thanks a bunch
Donnie