kits with no decals

just a thought (question) here

many of us buy models and them spend 5-10 bucks more on after-market decals either putting the factory issued one’s in a box or trashing them

wouldn’t be nicer to have the manufacturers not issue decals cut the price by 9%-to15% allowing the customer to purchase them in there choice not the factory

I don’t know Durr. Here is what I think would happen. The model companies would start leaving the decals out, then, once the decal manufactures figured it out, they would up the price of the AM decals. For one reason because of good 'ol supply and demand and for another because they would be losing money because the manufactures that once had deals with them to produce decals (cartograf for one) are no longer signing contracts or spending their money with them. I think in the end it would work out to be about the same, and if the worst happened, you would be paying more for decals and a kit than you would for just the kit with the supplied decals. I have bought AM decals, not a lot, maybe 4 or 5 for my aircraft that I wanted for a certain base, but I haven’t ever bought any for my cars, unless you count the carbon fiber decals, but to me those are an add on, they don’t replace the kit decals.

I just see it as another way for a company to take advantage of a given situation and line their pockets. That is not to say they would all do it, but I’m sure you would see a major price hike from some of them! Just my [2c] on a pretty interesting topic.

Here’s another problem with that:

Case No. 1

Often I get kits that due to one reason or another there are no aftermarket decals. In one case, a Hasegawa 1/32 Curtiss BF2C that I wanted to build as a Chinese Hawk III.

All I needed were some Chinese markings, such as from a Flying Tigers P-40, in 1/32 scale. I had to shelve the project for months until I got a hold of a nice customer service rep for a major model manufacturer (whom I prefer to not mention, due to possible abuse by others), and she sent me a “spare” decal set. Now I am set to go and look forward to doing the project when I get the time this year.

Guess what!-Still there are no a/m sets in WWII Chinese markings in 1/32!

Case No. 2

I don’t know about most of you, but in fact I have observed a significant increase in OOB decal quality and options since the A/M guys started to become more available (but then I’ve been doing plastic models for over 40 years) [:)]. At my local hobby shop the dealer’s demand for A/M decals has essentially “gone dead” in the last few years due to this. I really would hate to lose this just when things seem the best I have ever seen! In fact, as good as a certain A/M’s decals are, frankly they are not as good as many OOB’s I am experiencing at this time.

Also, I don’t know about you, but I have a special small plastic storage box where I file all my unused decals, and often I have enjoyed using them later for an alternate build, or if the “Law of Decals” takes over when I am finishing up a kit, usually a replacement can be made with minor surgery.

And, like another member has already pointed out, this would just let the manufacturer’s “off the hook”, where they would not really pass the savings on to us, and the already prickly A/M decal makers would simply get worse about gouging us if we had to go to them.

At least that’s my [2c]

Tom T[C):-)]

I agree with the other guys. Plus, a lot of times I buy the kit for the decals…

Bump… cause this is an interesting topic [:D]

say T what is the law of decals

This is the law that says that the chances of damaging a decal increase proportionally to it’s importance / uniqueness for the model which you are building.

National markings/stencilling are never problematic bacause they can be easily replaced from the spares box. However, nose art, kill marks, pilot names etc. will invariably tear, wrinkle or fold over on itself.

I don’t think I’d like to see the decals removed for the reasons already stated, I do wish that some of the oop sheets could be rereleased. Lately I have been looking for 1/48 Japanese decals (ki-45,ki-100) on Ebay . I am amazed at some of the bidding wars that go on. If people are willing to pay 20 $ and up for decals why not make more?

http://www.finescale.com/FSM/CS/forums/554238/ShowPost.aspx check that thread out Durr. Its pretty informative, and humoruous [:D]

eizzle you were right it is funny

[tup][tup]

Well said! [:D]

Tom T [C):-)]

I purchased a set of oop kit decals for my 1/32 Hasegawa P-12 from a fellow modeler in Holland. Actually we worked out a mutually agreeable swap (trade), which I feel is better then placing a price on something someone feels is important.

Tom T [C):-)]

Durr:

I understand your thinking, and economically it makes a some sense, but the fundemental issue you’ve overlooked is: What would the box art look like?

[:D]

In a more serious tone, the current system seem to be the best solution for all parties involved. THe name of the game is marketing, marketing, marketing.

The Model OEM: Offering differnt version, or re-releases with different decals, of the same basic plastic kit adds sales at little cost to them. Sure decasl cost anywhere from $6 to $15 for aftermarket, but I would bet the Model company pays closer to $1 a set since they buy so many. Some model companies may even makes their own decals. My point is that you wouldn’t see a 9% to 15% drop in prices because decals aren’t inlcuded. Their chosen markings are thrown in to entice the on-the-fence buyer.

The AM Companies: People like Aeromaster, Sky Models, Pyn-Up, etc. make money by doing decals the right way, offering intersting and unusual schemes in high quality. They already flourish, even though decals are included in the kit. Knowing that you don’t HAVE to buy AM decals, the healthy competitiveness between decals companies keep the prices relatively low and the quality high. AM decals are truly optional, so they have to offer a good product to entice you to buy. By forcing the consumer to buy decals each time a kit was purchased, the number of decals offered would increase dramatically, but would the quality level fall?

The Model Builder: Simply put, Tamiya is notorious for “thick” decals, yet they are still heralded as one of the top model manufacturers. The model sells despite the decals. Hobbycraft decals are known to be innacurate, off color and offset. Yet they sell models because the kit price is cheap. This isn’t a complaint about Hobbycraft…it’s just their marketing strategy. The majority of the model building society does not buy or not buy a kit because of the QUALITY of the decals. Yet, the MARKINGS offered entice you to look more closely at a kit. The most popular/well known markings are typically depicted because the average joe is going to be more prone to buy the “Spirit of St.Louis” than some Ryan exploration plane. The model fanatics that are set on building a specifically researched plane are going for AM anyways, and you just buy the best kit for your needs.

If it isn’t broke, don’t fix it.

I’ll get off the[soapbox]

Now, back to the original question: What would the box art look like?

[:o)]

Well, on the note of box art, I think kit makers would have to start doing some serious work, cause they couldn’t rely on their pretty packaging to draw attention to their product! I think you would see kit makers start uping quality, but then you run into the problem of them raising prices because of an increase in work that has to be done to turn out a kit that is better than the next guys?

I agree Mucker, and also, in my experience, the customer service with the AM decal makers (unlike the model makers) is non-existant!

They simply shoot out a run, and if you don’t grab yours in time-too bad!

When I have tried contacting them, they tell me that they have nothing in stock from “last weeks’ run”(or whatever), and they avoid selling sets to individuals.

Aeromaster goes so far as to have an unlisted business number, and their stuff is the most “here today, gone tommorrow”.[%-)]

This is in contrast to my experience with those makers makers who put out a better quality decal and can send you a spare sheet if the one with the kit is messed up.

As for Tamiya’s decals, I just buy some decals softening solution from my local hobby store, and I like them very much, as the slightly heavier ones work better with the softening solutions that “make the decal snuggle” right down to every rivet! The too-thin ones tend to “pucker” with the solution, and you gotta keep smoothing them out as they dry.

When “push-comes-to-shove”, I prefer customer service over any aloof manufacturer that is simply among others for me, but have a “take-it-or-leave-it” attitude.

Tom T. [C):-)]

Given that is would be a low overhead cost business, if you could find a niche in 1/32 or 1/24, it would be neat to start to your own decal company. All one would need is a vast source or resources of aircraft, a sense of scale, and the technical skills to operate a computer/printer. Of course finding high quality inks and papers would be implied.

I’m in the same boat but going the other direction. I want to find decals in 1/48 for the P-36 flown by rasmussen at Pearl Harbor and other than a 1/32 kit of the “Pearl Harbor Defender”, I can’t come up with them!

Well, mucker Hasegawa has recently re-released their 1/32 scale P-36 (I have already built the one I bought back in '79 so I don’t think you would want it) as a limited run so I don’t think you’RE in that bad-a-shape after all. [:D]

Tom T [C):-)]

I’m hoping to stay in 1/48 and I know Aeromaster HAD a sheet out there. I’ll check evilbay when I get closer to working on it (Academy P-36). I’ve built the Trumpeter P-40B (with the Chinese AVG markings you want!) and I have a P-40E Hasegawa kit somewhere in stash. I’m hoping to do the whole Curtiss catalogue before it’s all said and done!

As long as you remember that the P-26 was a Boeing [:)]

I am surprised that my unbuilt Hasegawa FB2-C didn’t make you drool if you really like Curtiss aircraft.[:)]

Tom T [C):-)]

Drool? Heck, I had to take a cold shower!

And by the way, you caught me off guard with the P-26 comment. I think I was correct mentioning the Curtiss P-36, but that being said, I am in hot prusuit of a P-26 Peashooter kit. I’m wanting to display the P-26, P-35 and P-36 , all done up in Pearl Harbor paint December 1941 style. Kind of an "early Planes of WWII display.