Just got my new Heller Soleil Royal

Wow! This model is the most incredible, and confusing model I’ve ever seen. The detail is incredible, and the build itself is going to be daunting. We won’t even talk about the instructions. They’re in French, but with an English translation in the back. I can already see that rigging is going to be an issue.

So, with that, I would greatly be forever thankful to any of the fine modellers on the forum who can give me links, ideas, pictures, any help at all with this. This is my first build on this level of model. Rigging, especially the ratlines (I guess that’s what they’re called, I’m lousy with ship lingo), are going to be difficult for me. So any links would be the greatest thing that could be done for me.

I’m finishing up the Consitution for my boy’s room, and I’ll be ordering the Heller La Reale in the next few days as a side project when I need to take a break from the Royal. But, what I’m going to try to do is put together a picture gallery of my progress. But, I will warn, I’m not a master modeller and it won’t be perfect…

Here I go on an insane build…

Hooo boy…We’ve discussed this kit several times in the Forum. Here are links to three of those threads:

http://www.finescale.com/FSM/CS/forums/559820/ShowPost.aspx

http://www.finescale.com/FSM/CS/forums/565324/ShowPost.aspx

http://www.finescale.com/FSM/CS/forums/571961/ShowPost.aspx

Hmmmm. Interesting. While I would agree that, for the historical afficianado, discovering the inaccuracies you describe would be very disconcerting. But at the same time someone who is that “into” their models, the challenge of making it as accurate as possible would make up for a lot of the deficiencies.

As for me, I build for the enjoyment. My focus in every day life is stronger and more refined when I work on models. The Royal, for all its faults, is still beautiful. My son went crazy when he saw it. We’re both into the old sailing vessels. He can’t wait to help me with it. And that makes this kit, for me, the best kit in the world.

I’ll be getting both the La Reale and Victory in the near future, before their prices start rising. I’ve read they are much more accurate. But then, of course, accuracy is always in question when it comes to a model kit. There are things designers miss, and that they simply cannot do. I’ll still get my enjoyment, and the time mentoring my son. That’s what’s important, to me, at least.

Thank you for the references for rigging and the sites to go to for the aftermarket parts you mentioned. Though, I will probably try to use the parts with the kit first. I’m stubborn that way.

All in all, I’m impressed with the kit. The level of detail is incredible, and I’ll be pulling my hair out after painting my 50th cannon, but the end result will be beautiful. I intend on using another skill of mine for the stern castle. I’m experimenting with the plastic right now. I will be doing all the gold sculpture with gold leaf. Polished, it should look incredible.

The biggest concern I have is the rigging. It will be a problem for me. I’ve always had a problem making sure all the lines are taught. And let’s not even discuss the ratlines. The jig included is a nice helper, but I’m unsure about how to tie off each horizontal rope, and tying off the end…I’m just not too up on it, though I will have to be. It’ll come to me eventually.

Thanks again. I’ll be posting pics as I do my work. I’m not a master at this mind you. You’ll probably see some rough around the edges work from my 12 year old boy. But those rough edges are memories for me to remember years from now. But I will be posting some pics of how “Mr. Average” with the limited budget/time does it.

Grymm - we’re on the same page. Each modeler needs to set his/her priorities. I just don’t want to see anybody go into an enormous project like that without knowing what he/she is getting into.

The Heller Victory and La Reale are indeed better kits. (This Forum contains several threads dealing with the former.) I especially like La Reale. I’m no expert on French galleys, but it certainly matches the drawings and artwork I’ve seen - and the “carved” decorations are just as well-executed (and almost as numerous) as those of the Soleil Royal.

Unfortunately La Reale seems to be out of production; if you find one my suggestion is to grab it. The “new” Airfix 1/100 Victory is a repackaging of the Heller one. One point to consider: folks who’ve bought the Victory recently report that the plastic is brittle and prone to serious warping. That wasn’t always the case. If I were in the market for a Heller Victory I’d try to find an older one - either in an old, well-stocked hobby shop, on the Web, or at a flea market or auction.

Regarding the kit blocks and deadeyes vs. aftermarket replacements - there’s no need to make any decisions about that at the moment. But be warned: the only way to make the kit parts work would be to file a groove around every one of them. And there are several hundred.

As for ratlines - we’ve discussed that subject in the Forum several times too. My own opinion, based on 50 years of ship modeling, is that the Great Ratline Problem is a hoax perpetrated on innocent consumers by ship model kit manufacturers. Rigging ratlines to scale actually isn’t hard. It takes a fair amount of time, but nowhere near as much as many people seem to think - and probably not much longer than using any of those jigs and other gadgets would take. If you haven’t started the kit yet, you’re months away from having to worry about ratlines. When you get to that point, you may want to look over this Forum and see how other folks have dealt with the problem. It really doesn’t need to be intimidating. If you can put all those guns together, you have the necessary dexterity to rig ratlines.

Regarding gold leaf - I tried it on my Soleil Royal, and didn’t like it. (Admittedly I built the kit about 25 years ago, and some new products have come on the market since then.) I found there were a couple of major problems. First, in order to work properly the gold leaf itself has to be laid on a smooth coat of sizing, plus the adhesive varnish - and each additional coat of anything, of course, tends to obscure the detail of those beautiful castings. Second, though gold leaf is extremely thin (about a millionth of an inch, as I understand it), I found that the tiny compound curves on those Heller parts were too much for it. The finished product had a slightly powdery appearance - not the shiny, shimmering, metallic look I had in mind. When I compared a trial run with gold leaf to a similar sample of Humbrol gold enamel, the Humbrol won out: it actually looked considerably brighter, smoother, and more metallic.

The nicest-looking gold hobby paint I’ve ever encountered was made by a now-defunct British company called Rose Miniatures. It came in two parts: a small vial of metallic powder and a bottle of amber-colored varnish. The modeler mixed the two together, and the results were great. Unfortunately I haven’t been able to find anything of that nature for many years. I’ve found “gold powder” and varnish in art supply stores, but it’s all been considerably coarser than the old Rose product. The gold paints made by firms like Humbrol and Testor’s, though, are actually mighty good. Maybe you’ll have better luck with gold leaf than I did, but I do suggest doing some samples with various other products and comparing the results before you commit yourself.

If you have a twelve-year-old who’s interested in ship modeling, you’re an extremely lucky man. My efforts to get my stepkids interested in model building - or any other constructive leisure-time activity - were among my more dismal failures. However that model comes out (and I suspect it will be spectacular), every hour you and your son spend on it will be an hour well spent - and an hour I’ll envy. Good luck.

Hi Grymm,

That’s a great approach to have with this hobby. I got back into the hobby a few years ago after a 25 year hiatus. It does indeed help “center” yourself. I’m very glad I got back into it. The main thing is to build what you want and have fun doing it. That’s all that matters unless you are building something for a client or museum. Sorry I can’t be of much help to you on the kit, I build mostly WW I and WW II ships. I do have the Heller Victory in my stash, taunting me to take it on some day. [:)] I’m sure I can handle it, but not sure I want to commit to a 2 to 3 year build at this point.

Building the kit with your son is a wonderful thing. My Dad never went in much for modeling, but I did build a sailing ship with my Mom when I was a kid. We built the old Revell Charles W Morgan whaler together. Even though I am now in middle age, I never forgot the experience. I’m sure your son won’t either. It’s such a pleasant memory, that I happened to see the exact kit we built on eBay. I just HAD to get it for nostaglia reasons. I don’t know if I’ll ever build it, but just seeing the kit makes me smile.

Good luck and have a great time ! You’re creating a great memory.

Ted

La Reale de France is not out of production. I saw it a week ago in local hobby shop together with some other Heller sailing ships (unfortunately, the one I’m interested in (Royal Louis) was not there – that’s why I started another thread in this forum). La Reale is also in actual Heller catalog, which can be found at http://www.heller.fr/flottant.pdf.

Btw. another Heller sailing ship kit, the frigate Belle Poule, has new airfix-style instructions. They are far better than old Heller ones. I hope that another Heller sailing ships will come with new instructions, too.

Stefan.

I am so glad I came to this site. Everyone is just great.

La Reale and Victory. I found the originals of both and will be getting them for later projects. I’ll most likely start on Reale when I need to take a break from Royal. Painting the Royal is something I look forward to, since that is my forte’. And I completely agree. I will be working on the Hull for many months to come. In that time, I’m going to research rigging techniques. You guys have been a great help.

I feel I am very fortunate, sort of. I’m a partially disabled veteran and I’m back in college. So I find myself with 3-6 hours a day free (well, after house cleaning…don’t want the wife getting on to me) to work my hobby.

I did WWII ships a very long time ago. For some reason though, I didn’t get the same kind of feeling like I get when I work on the sailing vessels of old. It’s really hard to describe. I guess it’s just me.

I’ll be posting from time to time. I’m finishing up the Constitution for my boy’s room. After that is an oil landscape of the smokies for my wife. THEN I’ll finally get to start the Royal. I’ll put up pics as I’m working on it. Just don’t laugh too hard when you see some of my amatuer work. I don’t go into the incredible detail like all of you master modellers, and believe me, I envy you for your skill and patience, but I’m happy with what I do.

Thanks again, and you can be sure I’ll have a bunch of questions for you…

It will take a while, but here’s how it should look.

I couldn’t get the link in SKorecko’s post to work - but the problem may be with my obsolescent home computer. I’ll try again later today at the office. Anyway - the current availability of La Reale is good news. I’ve got one in the attic, awaiting my attention (so many ships, so little time…). My recollection of it is that it’s a beautiful kit in almost every respect. The only significant problem I can recall concerns the oars, where Heller got a little lazy. The “handles” on the oar looms, as I remember, are molded as simple ribs, with no openings that an oarsman could grab. Shaving off the ribs and making scale handles wouldn’t be difficult - until one starts counting the oars. A long time ago I had a couple of ideas for solving that problem. If any of them works I’ll do another post.

I continue to suggest: if you find a Heller Reale, you want one, and you can afford it - buy it. I’m not clear on the precise state of affairs regarding Heller, Humbrol, Airfix, and the intricate relationship among them, but I have the impression that Heller kits may become harder to find in the near future. Even now the company catalog is a shadow of what it was once.

Here is the link again, now in “workable” format:

http://www.heller.fr/flottant.pdf

Catalog is in pdf format so the Adobe Reader (http://www.adobe.com/products/acrobat/readstep2.html) is required. I think that it works also on very old computers (Pentium I, MS Windows 95).

About 20 Heller sailing ship kits are in production now - good ones and bad ones, too. I have build only one of them – The Spanish galleon in 1/200 scale. I guess that it is one of these early Heller ships. It is a nice model, but I’m afraid that it’s not very accurate and realistic (for example, I have never seen any picture of Spanish galleon with oars – except of the box of this kit :slight_smile: ).

All I can say is to not try to be perfect with the build and have fun. Overall, it isn’t a bad kit, just very challanging.

Scott

Tilley, if SKorecko’s link still doesn’t work for you, go to heller’s webpage (http://www.heller.fr/default_uk.htm), move your cursor to the images of ships in the middle of the page, and from there select “download catalogue NAVY-SAILING SHIPS”. The file is 4,9Mo big so be patient while your web browser is downloading it: it takes some time depending on your internet connexion speed… Some web browsers choose to show you the file within the browser instead of downloading it; in either case you have to wait until the entire file has been completely downloaded. Maybe you didn’t wait long enough… Hope this helps! Regards, Chris

Oh, and vapochilled, I’ve got a little question for you: how do you clean your kit? or do you even clean it? would anybody have some good suggestions?

Wow! All I can say is I envy your skill. You guys are just incredible with the hobby. I consider myself “good” (take that term lightly though), but the pic you posted is downright beautiful. I do have some questions…okay, I have a ton of questions.

I’ve noticed a variety of paint schemes that have been used. I’ve seen the blue with the off-white, off yellow. I’ve seen black at the waterline with white below the waterline. I’ve seen just a lot of different interpretations. What is considered most historically accurate?

I’ve also thought about closing off some of the guns, simply because of the daunting task of assembling and painting all the guns. But, my son won’t let me. He loves all the guns and gave me the classic puppy dog pout and I just melted. So I have a lot of gunwork ahead of me.

Now, the biggest area I’m going to have trouble is with the rigging. I’ve simply never done this kind of work before. I learn fast, and I don’t cut corners, so I know that I"ll ultimately be fine. But, would it be possible to start exchanging some emails? I don’t want to be a bother, but I would really appreciate a “mentor” of sorts to help me get going with the rigging/ratlines…

I should be done with the Constitution for my son’s room this weekend. After I get an oil painting out of the way and take a breather, I’m starting on the guns and prelim work on the hull. I’ll post some pics then…

There is one added benefit from this kit. One that makes me really happy. My son was holding one of the hull halves, looking it over carefully. He then asked the question “what’s this for?”. What followed turned into a history lesson, my son gleefully searching the web for information on the ship. He’s learning. If nothing else, if this build turns into a catastrophe and I go bald pulling my hair out, I already consider it a success because it sparked an interest in my son to learn. Next will have to be the Victory and the Battle of Trafalgor.

Thanks guys…you’re helping make this kit a lot more fun for both me and my son.

Oh, I forgot to add. On the subject of Gold Leaf. My wife is big into crafts (scrapbooking, tole painting) and turned me onto a type of “liquid” gold leaf. I tried it out on some old parts I had laying around that had a bit of detail to them. The “liquid leaf” did not obscure the detail, and was polishable once it was dry. It works quite nicely. Just don’t polish it to much, or the shine will look very out of place on the model. I was able to pick some up at my local Hobby Lobby. They have several types of gold and some silver tones also.

That makes sense. Technically, “gold leaf” comes in sheets of genuine gold, about a millionth of an inch thick. It’s applied (usually with a dry, soft brush) to a surface that’s been prepared with a sort of primer coat (gold size) and a coat of varnish, which is left to dry almost completely before the leaf is applied. (The varnish, in effect, forms an adhesive.) Real gold leaf is quite expensive. There are various “patent leaf” substitutes that look almost identical (in fact my eye can’t tell the difference), and are applied in the same way. I’ve tried several of them for model-building purposes and, as I mentioned earlier, just haven’t been particularly impressed. Some other modelers have had better luck with the stuff.

“Liquid leaf” is, in effect, a gold-colored paint. It consists of metallic particles (whether they’re real gold or not I have no idea - but I rather doubt it) suspended in a vehicle of some sort to make them brushable. Several brands are on the market. In terms of their resemblance to real gold, they’re getting better all the time. So are the metallic hobby paints, from companies like Testor’s, Humbrol, and Floquil. My suggestion is to experiment with several. Consider the different color shades available, the way they handle in the brush, and how they look when they’re dry. Then pick the one you like best.

SKorecko - The office computer (with fiber optics) had no trouble with the link. I hadn’t seen a Heller catalog for a couple of years. If I’m not mistaken, the ship section of this new one is a good bit larger. Apparently quite a few of the old Heller sailing ships are seeing the light of day again. I confess I have mixed emotions about that. The Victory and Reale are two of the finest plastic kits ever; they should never be allowed to disappear from the market. On the other hand, some of those older Heller sailing ships are, in terms of scale accuracy, pretty awful.

I think I just may detect a slight increase in the popularity of plastic sailing ship kits. That’s great news.

Have to confess, she’s not mine! I envy Maurices’s(the builder) skill though, he’s currently working on his second heller victory!

http://www.chumster.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=83&mforum=bobbie

As for cleaning, I think it has to be kept clean, once dirty it is going to be a PITA to clean a ship like that.

I think that Heller is the biggest producer of plastic sailing ships all over the world now. A few months ago I thought that it is also the best producer. That every sailing ship kit from Heller is accurate representation of original. Then I came to this forum and realized that the truth is … very different :frowning: .

This thread is about Soleil Royal, so I apologize to be a bit out of topic. To correct it slightly I add a link to finished Soleil Royal from one German modeling site:

http://www.modellversium.de/galerie/artikel.php?id=289

And there is also Victory made by the same modeler (I feel I’m out of topic again :slight_smile: ):

http://www.modellversium.de/galerie/artikel.php?id=621

SKorecko is probably right: in terms of sheer numbers, Heller has the biggest current line of plastic sailing ship kits. For a sobering experience, take a look at the Revell Monogram website. There was a time when Revell was the world’s leader in sailing ship kits. The current catalog contains two - both representing the ship, one forty years old, the other fifty. The Revell Germany ship catalog is a little more impressive, but not much. All the sailing ship kits in it are at least thirty years old.

I’d be reluctant to dub any manufacturer “the best.” All of them have evolved over the decades; their 1970s kits are (with some notable exceptions) better than their 1950s kits. The best Heller products can stand comparison with any in the world; the worst are junk. The same goes for Revell. The best of the Airfix kits (I nominate the Wasa) are excellent - certainly superior, in terms of scale accuracy, to the weakest of the Heller and Revell ones.

If I absolutely had to give overall ratings to sailing ship kit ranges, the one I’d probably rate highest is the defunct Japanese company Imai. Its sailing ship line was fairly small, and appeared over a relatively brief time span. (There’s not much variation in quality among Imai kits. Nearly all of them date from the late seventies.) Unfortunately the company went out of business a long time ago. Quite a few of its kits are turning up again under other labels (Aoshima and Academy). The bad news is that the larger reissued Imai kits (such as the Cutty Sark - the best rendition of that ship in kit form, in my opinion) are being sold for horribly high prices.

In the tiny community of styrene sailing ship enthusiasts all eyes are on the Russian manufacturer Zvezda. Its line of sailing ships is small, and most are reboxings of other companies’ products. But Zvezda just released a brand new model of a medieval cog that, according to several folks who’ve bought it, is a fine kit. It’s also one of those extremely rare birds: an excellent sailing ship kit for beginners. Let’s hope it’s a success, and that it inspires more kits from the same source.