ArmorMaster, you won’t have to worry about your O-ring dissolving. The O-rings in my Iwatas have all kissed lacquer thinner and lived to tell another tale. I might dance one of my Iwatas in the thinner tonight. I’d be scared if I had a Sotar looking at lacquer thinner.
Hey I’ll jump in on this. The letter states the o-ring was in the air valve. That is the only place the Sotar has an o-ring. Just so you know most o-rings in airbrushes are made out of butyl which is not that resistant to the type of solvents used in painting. Unless the o-ring is made out of viton or some other chemical resistant oring material it is going to break down when exposed to thinners. This break down can be swelling, drying out and just breaking down of the ring. The reason the orings aren’t made out of better materials are cost and you are not supposed to nor is there a reason to soak the airvalve in any airbrush. If you soak your ‘almighty’ Iwata airvalve in laquer thinner the same thing is going to happen.
The Sotar is an excellent airbrush and will spray just as fine as line as a micron without any troubles. Yes, the needle is tougher too at least in my experience and that has been one of my issues with Iwata’s are the strength of their needles. The only thing that would make the micron better is if it felt more comfortable in use. This comes from many years of airbrush use and no, Badger is not my favorit airbrush. Mike is right when saying you will have a terrible time trying to spray model paint through the .18mm nozzle. What you can do is get some artist grade acrylic paint such as Liquidtex or golden and thin it with their airbrush mediums. You will get a much finer and higher quality pigmented paint this way and you will be able to spray it through the airbrush without too much hassle just make sure you are spraying over a primer coat. Thanks for listening.
John
I am not “protecting” anything. You quoted the letter on their web site and it said the O ring in the air valve was ruined. These are not solvent-proof O rings as far as I know on any airbrush as lacquer has no business ever coming in contact with them.
When did I say it didn’t happen?
Badger’s warranty is for life on labor for all of their airbrushes, that is not my opinion.
My guess is that Badger fixed this for free. I know a guy who sent 15 of his airbrushes to Badger and they repaired them all for free. Let’s see Iwata do that! [;)]
Have you soaked the entire airbrush in lacquer or just used it to spray out the airbrush?
Mike
John,
Thank You for backing up what I said as you have more experience than I do with airbrushes and I appreciate your input.
I have to call Ken and get me a Sotar to try out too. [;)]
Mike
Mike does like to quote me, doesn’t he?
He is actually quoting to what the Badger web site says.
I’ve never heard of any Iwata airbrush rings dissolving and I’ve dunked mine in the thinner before. I’m not a new-comer to Iwata airbrushes and I’ve never heard of an O-ring problem with them.
Maybe I have the only rare Iwata airbrushes with solvent-proof O-rings? Maybe my Iwata airbrushes are the best airbrushes in the world because mine are the only ones with solvent proof O-rings. [:D][8D] Yes, YES!
Badgers own web site has the email that says the Sotar O-ring was ruined. I didn’t say it. Badger did. I quoted, verbatim, what the Badger web site says and even left a web link for others to read. It was not a subjective opinion by me. So don’t flame me. Tell Badger to pull off that testimony.
The testimony on Badgers web site does make me wonder if other Badger airbrushes share parts with the Sotar.
Don’t think Iwata needs to worry about a customer sending in their own company’s AB 15 times (quality), thats why they won’t do it[;)].
i’m with armormaster on this one. maybe iwata’s customer service sucks so bad because no one ever has to use it!! maybe they put there worst employees in there sort of as a “penalty box”!![:D] you dont need customer service if you have an excellent product of good quality because no ones gonna use it much. i could care less about dewalt’s customer service because i’ve used there products so many times that i know that when i take the tool out of the box its gonna do its job and do it well. iwata is a fine quality airbrush. i have had prompt responses from iwata customer service if i’ve had questions. i’ve never had to send a product back to iwata so i dont know how they would respond. both my iwata airbrushes are only a couple of months old though. however, i’d love to send my omni 5000 back to badger and see if they would repair mine or find out what i’m doing wrong or whatever. later.
Who said I wasn’t quoting what the web site says?
And because you have never heard of it happening means that it doesn’t?
Call Dave Monnig at Coast Airbrush tomorrow and ask him about it.
He is a big Iwata dealer and he will tell you what we are telling you.
What are you talking about? I flamed nobody. Do you even pay attention to what others say when they answer? I am not denying that it happened to this person and it says so on Badger’s web site, but what does that have to do with it? John and I both told you that NO airbrush should have the air valve seal submerged in lacquer thinner and you seem to think we are wrong for whatever reason. John even told you what they were made of and why they swell, crack and are ruined from harsh chemicals.
If Iwata’s were so solvent-proof then why is a Teflon needle bearing optional and not standard?
You can believe what you want as it makes no difference to me.
Mike
It has nothing to do with quality, it has to do with wear and tear.
This guy is a T-shirt artist and they put an airbrush through much more than any modelers ever dream of. These guys spray 60-100 psi for 10-12 hours a day, 6 and 7 days a week. No airbrush goes through that without needing a needle bearing after a while.
Mike
Good Lord, are you kidding![:O] If I’m gonna put down the moola for an AB I want some quality! Some good quality!
On page one (sorry, forgot who[:(]) someone had their Iwata since 1983! I suspect they used it more than twice in those 2 decades. If that’s not wear n’ tear, then my friend I don’t know what is.
I also heard another story of one member (sorry, forgot who again! [:(]) using the same needle in their Iwata for 3 decades! The same needle, and the performance was still good as new. And I don’t think he used that just twice in 3 decades! Now don’t get me wrong MikeV. I don’t hate bagder at all. I think Iwata and bagder are some of the ones on the top. Iwata’s AB catalogue has interviews with proud Iwata users and they interviewed an automotive painter, a signmaker, a model-builder, an illustrator, and even a taxidermist! They all said great things about their indestructable iwatas and I suspect that the automotive painter and the signmaker use their AB’s everyday for long periods of time too. I don’t want to bring discredit upon an AB i’ve never used, I’m just defending my indestructable iwata and your defending your indestructable bagder.
Sorry my Badgers are not indestructable and neither is any airbrush. [;)]
Mike
You know what I mean, they both last. Nothings indestructable-thats a whole new topic right there-but I hope everyone gets the point…
A dealer is not necessarily a user. A user could possibly have more knowledge of a tool and its ability then a seller of tools. Wouldn’t you say after years of use that you have more knowledge of what your airbrushes are capable of than a person that sold you the airbrush?
I don’t go around quoting other people very often to back me up on anything. I stand on my two feet and look objectively at a situation. My Iwata airbrushes have been dunked in thinner before, one since 1983, and no part has ever been replaced on any of them. Consider that a testimony of a good airbrush design.
You may contact your Iwata dealer friend Dave Monnig tomorrow morning to have him call me a liar. Will your friend, a dealer of Iwata airbrushes, testify that my Iwata, sight unseen, did not survive 21 years of use in all different liquid media including lacquer thinner? Will he say my Iwata O-ring is gone, just like the Badger Sotar airbrush that failed? You can have your friend tell me off, testify that I am absolutely wrong, so you can be happy. But I will know the real answer. My Iwata airbrush HAS SURVIVED REPEATED dunkings in lacquer thinner. You are not going to convince me that it has not.
I do not need to contact anyone one to back me up. I’ve used my Iwata for 21 years and know what it is capable of doing. You and Dave are telling me I don’t know what it is capable of doing. Give me a break Mike and quit talking down to me. I might have learned one or two things about my airbrushes in the 30 years I have used them. I could never know as much as you about all the airbrushes but I do know one brand of airbrush very well.
I don’t think you can answer the thinner dunking question objectively unless someone wants to donate some airbrushes to ruin in lacquer thinner that they paid hard earned cash for. They could if they get their airbrushes for free.
Again, I was not subjective. I was objective when I showed the testimony directly from the Badger web site. I left the readers to make an opinion of the Sotar. I left the Badger web link so people could see and make an objective decision about the Badger Sotar. I would do the same for an Iwata airbrush. The guy who got lacquer thinner in his Badger Sotar broke the airbrush because an O-ring was ruined.
Well, I don’t have an Iwata but I do have two Badgers. One of them is about 12 years old. Both have sprayed everything from laquer to acrylic, and I have never had an o-ring problem.
roosterfish,
I am not saying your Iwata has not survived lacquer as you have told us that it indeed has. I am telling you what experts recommend and Dave Monnig that I told you about is not only a dealer he has been an airbrush user his entire life and he is good friends with some of the top airbrush users in the world including Noah, Craig Fraser, Terry Hill, and many others.
He even has a video out on airbrush maintenance and many consider him one of the top airbrush authorities in the world.
It is possible that an airbrush can survive lacquer thinner after being submerged, but it is not common and it is not recommended and that was the point we were trying to get across.
Here is a quote from a link on Iwatas web site in the “Common Questions” section:
Q: Is an airbrush hard to keep clean?
A: To maintain the airbrush, simply flush it with the appropriate paint cleaning agent–Medea Airbrush Cleaner for water-based paints and paint thinner for oil-based paints. Never immerse or soak an entire airbrush. Follow up with an application of Medea Super Lube for continued smooth operation. (emphasis mine)
Now why would Iwata link you to a web site that gives false information on their product if an Iwata can indeed be submerged?
The story about the Sotar I am not denying at all because it is obvious that the guy who soaked it in lacquer made a grave mistake as that is not a wise thing to do for any brand of airbrush.
Mike
I think that was Plum1030 who commented on that.
It might have been me. I found the handle very fragile. I do like my sotar, I just like the Iwata better. Though lately I’ve been using my Badger 100LG about half the time.
Yep, I’m calling it the Iwata/Bagder wars…
Look, bagder is a good company with good AB’s and Iwata is a good company with good AB’s too. I think it’s common sense to not soak an AB-ANY COMPANY’S AB-in laquor thinner or any thinner. Now calling up this guy dave at mooning airbrushes or whatever is kinda overkill-like using an 88mm anti-aircraft gun for hunting deer. Both company’s are both very respectible and great. It’s a war againts a die-hard bagder fan and some loyal Iwata fans and nobody’s gonning to win-their both great.