I have always wondered about that - why does the Army have the flag patch? I mean, the Marine Corps never did (still doesn’t, so far as I know though I retired in '08 so who knows… [:P]). But what is the point?
Stik
You are right that the Marine Corps does have some pin-ons (scuba bubble and jump wings) but that is pretty much it, and most Marines will never rate either of those. So, for the vast majority of jarheads, the only thing we add to our uniforms are the name-tapes (again, post-1991) and pin on rank insignias.
I thought I saw photos of Marines in Lebanon with the flag patch, but I believe during OIF (pre-ACU days), just about everyone was wearing the DCUs developed by the US Army. Apparently, it was to assure folks that Americans were around because our uniform was no longer distinctive.
They became mandatory on all Army combat uniforms between 2003 and 2005.
Indeed they did have the flag patch for that mission as in the photo above. When I was in group in the early 90s, we were issued two extra sets of hot weather BDUs. They were required to have only the US Army and nametapes, nothing else. A buddy I served with in Group had during the mid 80s been assigned to the Southern Europe Airborne Task Force (SETAF) in Vicenza Italy. They deployed all over Europe all the time and due to the nature of often being the only US Forces deployed always had that US Flag patch as well. I liked that flag patch on deployment as it gave me a bit of historical touchstone on my shoulder to US paratroopers in WWII. I know that it was exclusive to neither us nor them, then or now, but it was a connection.
I, for one, was happier the less stuff I had to put on my uniform. I’ll be honest, I’m not sure why the Corps decided to get rid of the flag patches after Lebanon in '83 (can’t recall if they were worn in Grenada or not). The thing is, I don’t see the point. Do locals really have trouble figuring out who the Americans are? And does it really matter? I don’t know, I’ve always just seen it as extra stuff cluttering up my uniform.
This is the only photo that I could find of what is supposed to be Marines in Grenada. IIRC, the MEU that landed in Grenada was was diverted while enroute to Lebanon and theoreticly should have had the flag patches,
Looks like the one in the background, center, has one. Can’t tell about the other guys. I did find some other photos from the Grenada… incursion, that show the Marines wearing them.
I would like to meet the man that sold the Saudi MOD the Woodland camie BDU’s for their Air Force personel in the 90’s. That guy has gotta be the greatest salesman ever.
I said the same thing about the Flaps getting sold woodland BDUs back in the 80s… BDUs on an AF Base? What’re they wantin’ to look like on the ramp? Shubbery?
Is this the one that was referred to as “chocolate chip”? This is the uniform I remember the most most from watch the news. The reports always started with Gen. Schwarzkopf who seemed to always be in this uniform. Anyway… that’s what my guys will be in mostly.
So here’s my question. What color is the webbing and gear the guys would be carrying?
Yes, that is the DBDU (Desert Battle Dress Uniform), a.k.a “Chocolate Chips” uniform. The gear/webbing was standard LC-1 “ALICE” Load Carrying Equipment from about 1973 that was worn until the early 2000s. It was mainly in OD green, but some pieces were in Woodland Camo as well.
Interesting thread.As I was in a unit that went but didn’t go myself.
Some Comments and observations.
With regards to the LCE the most common type I saw was the Y Harness type from the Wiki link. There were some H type that were supposedly older, that differed from the ones in the posted pics in having less padding. Most of this stuff faded to a more Khaki shade of OD green than the stuff in the pics. The E-Tool covers could be a plastic in a light green color(most common) or nylon and a few of these were Woodland. The canteen covers and first aid pouches also were occasionally in Woodland. I do not remember seeing any issue Woodland Suspenders at that time. Also could a Vet from Desert Storm confirm the use of the Vest in theater. I seem to recall these were being tested about the time Saddam invaded Kuwait. I know some of the earlier designed types that were tested sucked.
With regards to the protective mask, these could either be M17A1 or the M25. The M25 tankers masks were supposed to be issued to the drivers and the Track Commanders but it seemed to be a more of what you got when you rotated in thing. The line units also seemed to better about this than the HHC and Arty units. I think almost all the guys in Tank units at that time had the M25.
I was in the 197th Infantry Brigade Mechanized (the Dollar ninety-seventh) which was part of the 18th Airborne Corps which was the Rapid Deployment Force for the Middle east. Interestingly at the time of the Invasion of Kuwait, Time Magazine had just done a piece on Iraq having the 4th largest Army in the world that was circulating the barracks. A day or so after being alerted (which was I think day 3 after the Invasion) we drew gear. Somewhere through one of our line units I think early Charlie Company they ran out of everything but Large and soon X-Large and up Somewhere in here it started to be you got Jungle boots if they had them in your size. Boonie hats were also issued and the sizing in these held up the best. Funny story our platoon had a guy that wore X-Small X-Short and he got the X-Large Mediums, some swapping about had to occur. I still have a Buddy of mine’s from Charlie Co.'s X-Large shirt. I think they ran out of all the DBDUs before the entire Brigade was issued out. These guys and the ones that got the way too big stuff had to wait a week or so while the Flags (Full Color yellow border thread) and US Army tapes(Desert subdued) were sewn on. Hilariously while this was going on the Flags had to come off and then about the time this stuff was coming out the Flags had to go back on. I also seem to recall this unit got new uniforms with the desert boots before they rotated home. I think some of these were the 3 color but that stuff was coming in around Benning at that time so I may be off on that. Ican’t recall where our stuff was painted at, I do remember it went to Savannah quick to go on a boat. I think the Armour Battalion already had some or all of its tanks painted in the Desert Tan.
By vests, do you mean LBV load bearing vests or flak jacket vests? I did not see LBV and used the same old Y-shaped suspenders I used in basic, AOB, and my first duty station. Very faded nylon olive green with the nylon webbing fading more rapidly than the nylon covered padding.
We had flak vests in both old style OD and newer style woodland. In Germany, a flak vest was a standard issue upon arrival. I don’t recall getting any of the desert covers for the flak vests; they probably went to the infantry as priority.
The other vest I recall was the HMMWV drivers getting grenade vests because they were armed with the M203s.
In a tank company, the only soldiers issued M17 masks instead of the M25 mask were the CO’s HMMWV driver, 1SG, 1SG HMMWV driver, NBC NCO (often the same person as the CO’s HMMWV driver), the supply sergeant and armorer, motor sergeant, PLL clerk. Most of the mechanics had M25s because they crewed the M113 or M88. The tool truck driver and shop foreman might have had either.
Yes, I was a guy who wore Small/Extra Short with a boot size of 5 1/2 XW. Rarely did anything fit. I think they only had two sizes; too big and too small.
Last night I watched “Go for Broke” and remember the short soldier in the early part of the film while in training? He had been wearing the spats to keep his pants up.
This has been a great thread. The information here should be captured and compiled by one of you into an information sheet to help our fellow modellers.
At least this thread has a title that can be searched and eventually found. Most of the great information on this site gets lost in threads with cryptic titles like “need help” or buried in massively unwieldy group build threads. I’ll often see an interesting conversation with lots of great information being passed back and forth in some of those threads, but the topic title has little or nothing to do with the information and finding it again would be just plain luck.
This one will be easy to find several years down the road by searching for desert storm uniforms, DCUs, DBDUs, etc.
Yes that is an ongoing issue around here. Oddball, cutesy, or extremely generic thread titles that do not give an idea of whats inside. At least under the latest format the “favorite” thread or post seems to be working again.
