Is the F111 a Century Series fighter?

[Phil_H]

Re the F111;

This started as a USAF requirment to replace the Thud, …Australia was not involved in the original requirement, as they were initially wrapped up in the British TSR-2. With the cancellation of the TSR-2, Australia shifted to the F-111, as did the UK - only to cancel on this as well in favour of the F-4.

That’s what I was thinking too. The Australians came later, flying the -F but when the USAF retired theirs, they got a bunch of hand-me-downs, including some FBs (for parts I guess)and are still flying them (or at least were just a few years ago).

I didn’t know the Ardvark had a bomb bay cannon. What was it, a Vulcan?

Interesting armament on that bird. Paveways and Harpoons?

The RAAF has never flown the -F.

The initial contract was for 24 F-111C models. The “-C” was a unique variant combining the fuselage, engines and avionics of the “-A” with the longer span wings and strengthened undercarriage of the FB-111A. The initial 24 aircraft were all new-builds. In later years we received attrition replacements including a number of F-111A’s subsequently ugraded to F-111C spec and a number of F-111G’s (redesignated FB-111A’s).

[Milairjunkie]

Good - someone from Australia to join the conversation;

Phil_H, what is the current state of play with the F-111 retirement in 2010 & the stop gap f-18s? Would love to hear of an extension on the date.

I assume you will know about the goverment F-111 retirement meeting that was recorded by a F-111 flying overhead on the QT in an effort to show it real term values??

[Helo_H-34]

I was curious if there has ever been a 1/72 scale version of the F-111B prototype for the U.S.Navy ; Or perhaps a conversion set .

Kind regards John.

[squeakie]

My understanding on the Century Series A/C is that they are all production fighters in the F-100 + range. The Thud is included as it arrived around the right time & was also a Fighter/Bomber, thanks to its cannon. The F-111 was to late & could only really be classified as a Fighter/Bomber on the rare occasion it had the little used cannon filling up the bomb bay - it’s really nothing like a fighter, more a high value (wasn’t that a fact), advanced, pinpoint strike A/C.

Re the F111;

This started as a USAF requirment to replace the Thud, the Navy requirment was added by McNamara, the project becoming TFX. Every attempt was made to shoehorn the Navy into an A/C which was unsuitable & overweight, to the degree that some pretty fundamental take-off, recover & range requirements were adjusted to suit the A/C as opposed to the Navy.

Australia was not involved in the original requirement, as they were initially wrapped up in the British TSR-2. With the cancellation of the TSR-2, Australia shifted to the F-111, as did the UK - only to cancel on this as well in favour of the F-4.

Interesting doc showing the failures of the contract / procurement system here http://www.georgespangenberg.com/vf3.htm

Got to love the Vark;

seems like it was only yesterday that I remember watching the Congressional hearings on the TFX cost over runs, (they were televised on the national news) and the push to cancell any more money being dumped into the project. I well remember a person reading a letter to the Congressional sub committee that also included to the history of the project. Australia was in it before the Airforce was, but did (as you say) drop out of it), and then the Airforce kept it afloat. Now that was in the mid to early sixties, and was not even considered for production at that time. It’s in the Congressional Record just like the minutes of all subcommittee hearings are unless they are closed doors.

gary

[Phil_H]

Good - someone from Australia to join the conversation;

Phil_H, what is the current state of play with the F-111 retirement in 2010 & the stop gap f-18s? Would love to hear of an extension on the date.

I assume you will know about the goverment F-111 retirement meeting that was recorded by a F-111 flying overhead on the QT in an effort to show it real term values??

As far as I know, the plan to retire the aircraft by 2010 is still current. Considering that deliveries began in 1973, 37 years is a pretty impressive service record.

I was curious if there has ever been a 1/72 scale version of the F-111B prototype for the U.S.Navy ; Or perhaps a conversion set .

Kind regards John.

Hi John,

I’ve never seen it except in a catalogue, but Revell had one in 1/72 scale in the early-mid 70’s.

seems like it was only yesterday that I remember watching the Congressional hearings on the TFX cost over runs, (they were televised on the national news) and the push to cancell any more money being dumped into the project. I well remember a person reading a letter to the Congressional sub committee that also included to the history of the project. Australia was in it before the Airforce was, but did (as you say) drop out of it), and then the Airforce kept it afloat. Now that was in the mid to early sixties, and was not even considered for production at that time. It’s in the Congressional Record just like the minutes of all subcommittee hearings are unless they are closed doors.

gary

Gary,

According to my references, the DOD contract with General Dynamics/Grumman for the TFX/F-111 project was signed in Dec 1962.

The evaluation process which ultimately resulted in the F-111’s selection for RAAF service began in May 1963 and the announcement of the selection of the F-111 was made in October 1963. Certainly this was before the first flight of he aircraft, but the development was already well under way before Australia signed on. Originally the RAAF was leaning towards the A5 Vigilante family before settling on the F-111.

[SoD_Stitch]

Re the F111;

This started as a USAF requirment to replace the Thud, …Australia was not involved in the original requirement, as they were initially wrapped up in the British TSR-2. With the cancellation of the TSR-2, Australia shifted to the F-111, as did the UK - only to cancel on this as well in favour of the F-4.

That’s what I was thinking too. The Australians came later, flying the -F but when the USAF retired theirs, they got a bunch of hand-me-downs, including some FBs (for parts I guess)and are still flying them (or at least were just a few years ago).

I didn’t know the Ardvark had a bomb bay cannon. What was it, a Vulcan?

Interesting armament on that bird. Paveways and Harpoons?

The RAAF has never flown the -F.

The initial contract was for 24 F-111C models. The “-C” was a unique variant combining the fuselage, engines and avionics of the “-A” with the longer span wings and strengthened undercarriage of the FB-111A. The initial 24 aircraft were all new-builds. In later years we received attrition replacements including a number of F-111A’s subsequently ugraded to F-111C spec and a number of F-111G’s (redesignated FB-111A’s).

Yes; in fact, the “C” sat in storage for quite a while until Australia was able to pay for them; to date, Australia has received four ex-USAf “A’s”, and fifteen (15) ex-SAC FB-111A’s (five of which are kept on-hand for parts only). Go here for a good article from the Smithsonian Air & Space magazine on the aircraft the Aussie’s affectionately call “The Pig”.

http://www.airspacemag.com/military-aviation/cit-triplett.html?c=y&page=1

[Phil_H]

My understanding is that the delay in delivery was, in part, due to the emergence of metal fatigue causing wing carry-through box failures in USAF aircraft, and the subsequent investigation, inspection and modification processes required to resolve this issue.

The rising cost of the aircraft was another issue. When the Australian contract was signed, the projected overall production run for the F-111 was something in the region of 1500 aircraft. Actual total production was around half this number.

[urich]

John check ebay Revell made one in 1/72 scale in the late 60’s or early 70’s I have built one when I was a kid and now have one in my stash.

[Helo_H-34]

Thank’s for the tip urich . earlier I had a bit of a quick search on google and came across this web site , http://www.72scale.com/aircraft/GD/F-111.htm . It lists all the 1/72 scale F-111 kits , actually only the Hasegawa kits , I have in my stash the Italeri 1/72 F-111A . The site also has listings for conversion parts and decals . Quite informative !!

John

[dmk]

Thanks for the input guys. Pretty much settles that question.

And then some!

You can’t just ask a simple question and expect a simple answer around here. [8D]

[Milairjunkie]

My understanding on the delivery was that it was proposed to happen in 1968, but that there were several unexpected wing carry through box failures during fatigue testing & although there was a “for the camera” handover, deliveries as such did not happen until 1973. As far as I know this was due to Australia’s refusal to accept the A/C & not down to them not paying - it is possible that the non-payment was carried out in an effort to assist/speed up the reworks. The ordered, but not acceptable A/C then sat in storage are Carswell AFB in the US.

In the interim Australia leased 24 F-4E’s until the problem was sorted. Following an F-111 crash investigation it was later discovered that traditional fatigue testing was not appropriate for the failure area & that “cold proof load test’s” had to be carried out to properly identify fatigue on the D6ac steel structure.

I’m not sure if this happened, but there was discussion at one point (early in servcie days) of 20 F-111C’s having to go back to the US for further testing at a cost of some $0.3 million.

[dmk]

The RAAF has never flown the -F.

The initial contract was for 24 F-111C models.

Thanks for the correction Phil. I don’t know why I got the -F model stuck in my head. That would have been much later, and then they got the -G(ex-FB111), not the -F.

[dmk]

My understanding on the delivery was that it was proposed to happen in 1968, but that there were several unexpected wing carry through box failures during fatigue testing & although there was a “for the camera” handover, deliveries as such did not happen until 1973. As far as I know this was due to Australia’s refusal to accept the A/C & not down to them not paying

I dug out an article from Smithsonian Air & Space that agrees with this. The F-111 was called the “Flying Opera House”, a refence to the Sydney Opera House construction controversy.

According to the article, they like the aircraft. They have some maintenance problems with the wing hinges, but it’s an old aircraft and requires a lot of TLC. I don’t know how those F-18s would serve as replacements. One of the F-111s virtues is to carry a respectable bomb load over a long range (all the way up into Malaysia from Australia). The F-18 is a fine aircraft, but it is not known for long range.

[riktexan]

FWIW, check “Century Series” at wikipedia.org.
They exclude the F-111, too, along with immediate predecessors and follow-ons.
This could go on forever!

Mainely Rick

[squeakie]

My understanding on the delivery was that it was proposed to happen in 1968, but that there were several unexpected wing carry through box failures during fatigue testing & although there was a “for the camera” handover, deliveries as such did not happen until 1973. As far as I know this was due to Australia’s refusal to accept the A/C & not down to them not paying

I dug out an article from Smithsonian Air & Space that agrees with this. The F-111 was called the “Flying Opera House”, a refence to the Sydney Opera House construction controversy.

According to the article, they like the aircraft. They have some maintenance problems with the wing hinges, but it’s an old aircraft and requires a lot of TLC. I don’t know how those F-18s would serve as replacements. One of the F-111s virtues is to carry a respectable bomb load over a long range (all the way up into Malaysia from Australia). The F-18 is a fine aircraft, but it is not known for long range.

I think that if you dig real deep your gonna see a picture of Bo Gritz standing next to an F111 just inside the Lao border. Time frame is 1968. This was the first one that went down, and he and somebody else were sent in there to recover the black box. The base camp I was hooked in with blew one up in late September or very early October that was about forty miles north of Kam Duc. This wasn’t the first plane to go down, and may have been the third or fourth. The reason this time frame rings so well is that I remember a visit from Gritz right after that (at the time I only knew him as just another officer, but he was well known in the camp). Gritz and I have spoken later and he remembers the trip out to A102 well.

gary