I agree with whats genreally been said here. Nicely built, for the most part, but let down by the weathering. As for the dry brushing on the Tiger, that seems to me how the ‘experts’ do it. Tony Greenland in his Panzer Modelling, amongst others, suggests dry brushing untill you are useing straight white. I totally disagree. I’ve never seen seen white edges on an AFV, even ones that haven’t been painted for several years.
It’s gotten so bad with drybrushing all the edges that if you don’t do it, you get dinged for it… I’m with you, Bish, I’ve never seen white edges either. They’re the same color as the rest of the track, unless they don’t have any paint on 'em at all…
One truck I built, I did the opposite… The light color was in the cracks and joints, and the dark was on the edges… Why? Becasue that’s wher dust settles on tracks operating in dusty conditions, and the edges constantly get the dust wiped off in many places due to crew and foliage… It was a diorama of my gun & truck at Ft Hood where the tank trail was so dusty one day, the dirt was ground into flour… Even just walking on it, you raised a cloud of dust. In three minutes of driving on that trail, almost the entire vehicle was the same color as the trail on the upper surfaces… But since I’d be bass-ackwards from the “herd”, I’d get dinged on it, even though that’s way it truly looked… Now, it’s my way of doing things…
If you go all the way to white, why bother with any other color? Seems to me that some guy just did that on his own and everyone started to copy it, whether it was realistic or not… Other than to “pop out” detail in some places, like MGs and rifles, or nuts &hinges and such, drybrushing gets outta hand, real quick… All the dark shading at every seam and panel, and drybrushing every edge and weld-bead looks nice, but it doesn’t look real, at least not to me…
I gotta say, I’ve looked at these German Armor entries and am not at all impressed if these were deemed the best at a Nationals IPMS event. Either the judging was flawed or the field was shallow, and I doubt that there was a shortage of entries…Don’t get me wrong, they are good to very good, but IMO not what I would expect to be the BEST at a Nationals…However, I’ve looked at the American Armor that SMJ posted and was impressed by what I saw (did any of those place?).
Quote: “The very first thing I noticed on this model were the rust streaks, WAYYY over done is you ask me (especially on the front hull/glacis!) and on a “temporary” winter whitewash too.”
But, I gotta say, that if the rust streaks were too much on the Jagdpanther for your taste, then I’m surprised that you don’t feel the same way about SMJ’s StuG (no disrespect intended to your work, SMJ, which I like despite my opinion on weathering)…IMO, both are overdone…Not trying to rekindle a weathering degree debate here, but if you’ll notice, rust streaking was kept at a minimum on the Allied tanks and most people seem to like them…I think the Allied tank pics are more “the mainstream” when it comes to weathering style…that’s not a qualitative judgement, just an opinion…
IMO, and based on my years of research and refs, no operational tank rusted to that degree. Anyone with a pic of that kind of rusting should post it. Most tanks were never operational long enough in WW2 to get their actual finishes (other than be covered by earth, dust, rain, snow, etc.) marred to that degree…Many German tanks by '44 never survived long enough to get their fuel tanks re-filled after they left the factory…
After watching this thread with interest over the past two days, I strongly feel it’s time for the “Devil’s Advocate” to speak up…seeing as many of the comments imply - overtly or covertly - the judges were just dead wrong and obviously working for the Devil.
First, no one can make an accurate assessement of a model’s potential for an IPMS award based on one photo…it simply can’t be done.
Second, the vast majority of comments in this thread focus on items the judges are instructed NOT to evaluate. In a perfect world, opinions and feelings have no part of the judging process.
Assume (if you will) that these two models were the ONLY two models in the entire contest where none of the judging team could find a single error in construction and every other model had at least one (even minor) error noted. The judging team would be required to place these two models 1 and 2 in the contest. That is simply the way it’s supposed to be done based on the rules of the contest.
Assuming a modeler made NO mistakes in basic construction, judges are never supposed to ding a model or boost a model because of something the modeler could or should have done differently. A judges job is purely to assess how well the modeler did what they choose to do. Items like “realism” and “historical accuracy” are not supposed to come into the discussions of the judges except if it gets to the point where 2 or more models are clearly at the top of the heap in terms of basic construction and a tie-breaker is needed to rank them. Until that point, a purple Tiger I with green polka dots has just as good a chance of winning as any other model.
Now, as I’ve said in the past, I really dislike the IPMS way of judging models, but it is what it is. I really don’t think anyone can truely appreciate the situation the judges are in unless you’ve personally, “been there, done that”. I also do not personally “like” the finish on either of these two builds…but that’s an opinion and has nothing to do with how I would judge the models.
[Edit - We can debate the IPMS rules all day long - that’s fair in my book. However, when individuals start to say the judges have no integrity or simply don’t know what they are doing and have absolutely no factual basis on which to make those claims, I tend to get just a wee bit miffed.]
Just my 2 bits…
My be it’s just me but the first two don’t look all that realy like this one. I think this one should have bean the #1 Winner. But that’s just me the first to look a lot like cartoon style painting and the last looks like you could wall right up to it.
Of the three…
Stug wins*…without a doubt.*
“Judges in Denial,” screams the headline. Maybe not “the” best, but much better that the rest!
That Tiger’s antique finish is 
old school and out-dated IMO, how dare they put it up for first. Even when the dry-brush craze was “in” it made no sense to me… … looked like they were outlined with neon light. You’ll never see me use drybrushing in that manner.
!http://th215.photobucket.com/albums/cc58/excuuzeme/AA%20Normal%20post%20Smileys/th_thhmmm.gifI’ve never seen edges on armor that are the lighter color unless it’s worn snow-camo, and then even THAT wouldn’t be consistent.
To me the jagdpanther would be a better choice except for the skirts, 
something looks a little screwy there.
DISASTERMASTER
This COULD NOT have beat either of the other two. It was in a different class. This has been stated before.
In addition to what was done, you are seeing the effects of the flash from the camera. I have often chosen not to use a flash picture when poisting my work because it overemphasizes highlights. Given teh light in any hall, gthe judges would hot have seen as much highliight or shadow as is seen here. A couple years ago, Dan Capuano took best figure at AMPS East with a Brit from the Zulu wars. In person, the figure looks great. In the flash assisted photo I took, it looks garishly cartoonish.
Here’s teh same Tiger in available light:
What you wrote was written several times earlier in the thread: that the IPMS rules are what they are, period…I think everyone gets that.
I feel that the continuing discussion points to the possibility that the IPMS system is archaic. I’ll bet they were initially written in the days before Verlinden, Greenland and MiG…the days when you glued, washed and dry-brushed and were finished…when the construction of the model constituted the bulk of the entire build…
Hay thanks ajlafleche for putting up the better photo, it look a lot better in the first shot but still the StuG III has it beat with the level of weathering.
I couldn’t agree more. I see photos is some of the modelling books by the experts and think it just looks silly. In the past i have tried to get the same look as they have in the books, because thats how the experts say it should be. But now i think how many of these people have seen real AFVs in real conditions. So as long as i think it looks real, thats all i am worried about.
Our Warriors were painted green and black. But after a couple of days in Iraq you could’nt make out the different colours and the dust on the rear deck was an inch think all over.
It is all a matter of taste…I respect Greenland and feel he brought the hobby to a higher level as far as armor modeling goes…his methods may not be in vogue as they once were, but 15 years ago he was cutting edge…that’s why we know his name. He once said, “I model armor, not the earth.” when explaining his “clean” style…
Apples and oranges…they were in different classes! Meanwhile, others are complaining the jagdpanther is over weathered.
I’m sorry, guys, what I’m seeing here is FSM favoritism. The two builds SMJ posted are getting dissed terribly, meanwhile, in another thread an FSM regular has posted a build where the tracks on one side are not touching the idler wheel and a fender decal which should be flush with the edge of the fender is clearly crooked and lifted from the fender on the inner edge. (As well as a couple accuracy items.) He’s getting glowing praise.
Again, these were judged to be the best in German Heavy Armor. Lacking the ability to examine evey other model in that class side by side with these, they MUST be considered best in class. Period. Given the photos, I don’t see anything more than the possible edge on the cross on the Tiger as possible assembly flaw. Again, the camera could be lying or showing something that was not visible to the judges (I have often brough a figure back for correctio after seeing it on hte computer screen.) As I mentioned in SMJ’s initial thread, from the photos he posted, one of the road wheels on the right appears to be uneven with the rest and the left rear fender appears to be askew compared to eh right with no damage apparent. While none of these flaws would absolutely preclude placing, depending on what else was on the, they would certainly hurt his chances.
Someone else posted a letter about perceived home cooking in Seattle. I can’t address that particular event. I’ve never been to Seattle. I’ve heard that raised about my club. I’ve crunched the numbers. The percentage of winners from my club in our contest was almost exactly the same as the percentage of entries on the table from our club. The same was true of each other club represented as well as the unaffiliated attendees. It really frosts me when people make these unfounded accusations without any access to the raw data. Any club that routinely home cooks will in short order be doing an in-club only contest.
Quite frankly, a $10 trophy and ephemeral glory are just not worth cheating for.
Well even in the new photo of the Tiger with standard lighting, it just plain doesn’t look very realistic IMO, and it seems to me with IPMS dated style of judging, that really doesn’t matter.
Guys: I didn’t intend for this to be “a sore loser[BH]” thread on my part, I just wanted the forum to get an idea of how the judging seems to go for IPMS. From what I’m reading, I need to attend an AMPS show for comparison. I’m rethinking Granitcon and have decided I’d rather go to AMPS East in Danbury. I can only attend one event with the cost of gas, so I think AMPS it is!
If you have not done so already, please go see my IPMS Nationals Armor Pic’s thread. You will see some unbelievable builds, the VAST majority are NOT WINNING entries. Unfortunately, I didn’t photo hardly ANY winners because they didn’t catch my attention. Of course that means you’re getting my bias as to what is photo-worthy, but go look for yourself and see what you think…
Looking forward to meeting you at AMPS. Too bad you can’t do Granitecon, too. That’s a nice little event. Always have fun there; used to be more fun before the local Hooters closed. MMMM, Three Mile Island Buffalo Shrimp and curly fries. DURR who posts on FSM regularly also attends.
When and where is Granitecon?
Granitecon XVI 
Nashua Elks Club
120 Daniel Webster Highway
Granite State Modelers
Rodney Currier 603-726-3876
only refering the the very outside of the Jagdpanther; the paint looks pretty realistic to me. I’ve seen several unrestored pieces of German equipment in the past, and the paint always seems to let go from the very outside edges. I did think the builder went a little too heavy in the rust department, but then again it could have been from a far northern coastal A.O. I won’t knock him till I can do better for sure. Remember that the side shields (skirts?) were only .197" thick, and would have flexed all over the place when comming in contact with just about anything solid.
And lastly: I really didn’t realize that the Tiger was in 1/48th!! Till I went back and reread the initial post. Once again I only wish I could build anything that good. But I did run out and buy that same kit (along with two STUG II’s). So sometime in the future all of you be prepaired for lots of questions (you’ll be sick of me for sure)
gary
I’ll have to check what I wrote, but the Tiger is 1/35th. The category is 1/48 and LARGER.
You are allowed, if I recall, up to five figures before it gets bumped to dio’s (that’s where my SU-122 with the 11 fig’s went). Also, the figures are to be there for scale ONLY. If you intended to “tell a story” then it gets bumped to dio’s too. It’s kind of gray area, but you’ll see many builds include figs.
lol, ok no one take offense at this, but SMJ, its creeping out that you’re pretty bitter at the outcome of this, and maybe that’s magnified by the fact that everyone here seems to have sided with your model. Or maybe I’m just overanalysing this [:)]
Manny, you hit a pretty good point, if the Jagdpanther is heavily weathered, the StuG is doubly more so, and I find it quite difficult to compare the ‘realistic’ nature, that is to say, which is more reaistically weathered. I think the weathering on the Jagdpanther is far more subtle. There are some surfaces, namely the flat hull sides, where your texturing (SMJ) and weathering effects are superb, at least on par with the Jagdpanther, but that is not so for the rest of the model. Most of you pointed out that there is no weathering on the inside of the tracks. Kind of hard to see it on the StuG too, IMO. Overall, with the lighter weathering on the Jagdpanther, it is actually easier to see the quality of the construction work…
Further, that Tiger actually looks quite good. Stating that a whitewash would not stay that fresh looking is a moot point at best. The model could have been portrayed at any point in its life, perhaps sometime soon after the whitewash was applied. The drybrushing techniques are fairly strong, and interesting to see that in a winner, since it seems to be a ‘dead’ technique. However, the construction itself is fantastic, and the light weathering makes this very easy to see. I do not see that model as ‘unrealistic’ in the least. There is also something to be said that it takes some skill to make a model look interesting while keeping the weathering to a minimum.
Both of the winners exibit a certain sense of minimalism, less so for the Jagdpanther, and that is something I’ve learned to appreciate, as I build my own models. I realized that overly heavy weathering is fairly simple to apply, but minute scratches and scrapes, subtle streaks, a variety of tectures and plenty of tonal variation makes the model look far less ‘dirty’, but just pops with more detail.
Anyways, SMJ, as I said in the other thread, don’t take this the wrong way dude, you have constructed an exemplary model, by any account. For the next one, I would focus on taking an example of some of the best parts of your model, and following that through to the rest of it. See if you are able to reach better results in competition via a paint finish that will allow you to show off good construction finishes, and focus on more subtle weathering.