I’m usually a aircraft guy…but saw an interesting frame of the USS Arizona in the movie “Pearl Harbor” that I was thinking about re-creating. The point when she buckles and explodes! I think its an amazing and shocking scene (totally Hollywood) but I’m torn whether or not to do it because the Arizona is special to so many of us…kind of like re-creating the fall of the twin towers…and now as I’m writing this…maybe this would not be a good idea…hmmm…thoughts…concerns…
Mark
Go for it… You might also want to do something similar for the other side… like a diorama of Yamashiro going down under a hail of US battleship shells!
i’d say go for it. I think that as long as it’s presented in the right way it would be very good.
I don’t think it’s in bad taste so long as the overall presentation doesn’t come across as revelling in the tragedy.
Not to do it (for the reason you presented) would to say that one art form has rights over another. If movie can be made, or a painting can be created depicting the scene, then there is no reason why a modeler’s art form is any less valid. I believe you are creating a statement. A powerful one at that. And you shouldn’t have any hesitation.
Go for it, just try not to depict bodies flying in the air.
As long as you dont do it like a yay for japan victory dio, and more a homage to a fallen american ship, youll do fine.
Doable? Yes. Realistic? Don’t think so. If you look at the video and the still images of the explosion, you’ll notice no buckling of the hull. When the bomb exploded, the majority of the explosion would go straight up because the water under the hull would act as a tamping factor. Water doesn’t compress very well therefore the force of the explosion would be directed upward. Also, the underwater photos of the wreck don’t show any buckling forward. Most of the starboard and port sides forward are still intact including the armored sides.
I think the movie makers saw too many films of torpedo hits on ships which do tend to lift the ship and break it in half. That would happen from the explosion being underwater, hence a tamping factor. The force of the explosion follows the path of least resistance which would be straight up.
Basically, the explosion would push down on the hull which then would push down on the water, the water doesn’t compress and causes the force of the explosion up through the deck (the weakest part).
I’m not an explosives expert, but I did spend 8 years blowing things up as a combat engineer.
-Jesse
**Jesse…**great points…I always love depicting scenes from actual footage…maybe I can work something in from those old black and whites…
Mark
You might have a hard time with the smoke from the explosions. How about a model of the day after? Most of the deck was still above the water line (the ship hadn’t settled in the mud yet) along with the superstructure, although badly damaged. If you did a water diorama with the rescue crews around, I think that would be cool. There are a lot of pictures available from days after December 8.
Here’s an example: http://www.steelnavy.com/MiniHobbiesArizonaAJoslin.htm
-Jesse
If you pick up Stud Turkel’s ‘the good war’ (an oral history of WWII) there are one or two stories of people who worked as the rescuers during and right after pearl harbor, anopther good place for some ideas.
A couple of points here… many of your conclusions are incorrect.
If you look at the overall drawing based on a survey instead of photos that have a very limited view (For more drawings/sketches, go here and look at 3.7, 3.8A & 3.8B)
, you will see that the forward half of the ship is extremely distorted. The pressure that built up within the ship blew her up like a balloon before bursting out from the sides of the ship. You are correct that the water acted as a tamp… but only on the portions of the hull that were below the waterline. The sides of the hull blew out above the torpedo blister, leaving the main deck largely intact (to sink down into the chasm that the explosion created).
If you look at this video clip you will note a lot of horizontal movement of the explosion as well as a jet of soot from the stack… one of the early misconceptions was that a bomb had gone down the stack; but the tremendous pressure build up in the hull made it back to the fire rooms and rushed out through the boiler, taking a lot of soot up with it.
It would be a worthwhile venture in my opinion, but extremely hard to make look right.
That clip is very well known but usually it is zoomed in and reversed…one thing for sure that YOU DON’T SEE is the ship lifting out of the water…also, it appears that the explosion traveled aft in the ship and the most intense fire also seemed to burn aft as well…One thing to determine if you are going to do this dio is what millisecond are you going to portray, since the explosion is so dynamic and every fraction of a second would be a different depiction…
Wow everyone!!..so glad I asked…you all are a great source of info…taking into consideration the exact moment i want to depict, the physics of the explosion, the honor I want to portray…this could very well be the project of the year for me…thanks all for getting my creative juices flowin.
Mark
The ship was devasted forward of frame 88. The explosion ripped through the sides of Arizona from frame 10 to frame 70 and upwards through the deck forward of turret one. The deck area from frame 70 to frame 34 collapsed and sloped downward. The forward turrets and conning tower fell 25-30 feet. Basically, the ship was gutted in this area and everything fell forward into it. Now in terms of side damage, about 20 feet from deck to blisters was blown out. The remaining 40 feet from the top of the blister to the keel remains, most of it sunk in the mud.
The above information comes from “Battleship Arizona: An Illustrated History” by Paul Stillwell and from “USS Arizona: Ships Data” by Arizona Memorial Museum Assn.
In my previous post I mentioned the ship did not buckle. By that I ment, the ship’s keel did not bend due to the explosion.
Here’s the video on Youtube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sv1niwxQgoY&feature=related
Go to 2:20. Clearly the way the ship lifts out of the water didn’t really happen.
-Jesse
This may be slightly off topic but, I think another interesting possibility for a diorama involving
the Arizona would be the shore batteries on Oahu that were built using two of the Arizona’s
14" turrets. The third turret remains in the wreck. One was emplaced at Kaneohe on the
windward side and the other at Maile
on the leeward side of the island. I believe one of the batteries was completed and test fired
around VJ Day. Then, both were cut up for scrap.
Ray
Ray, there is 2 turrets left on the arizona, “A” turret is complete with guns & “B” turret minus guns, roof & front plate.
Two coastal batteries were planned. There were to be call Battery Pennsylvania and Battery Arizona. Battery Pennsylvania was placed on the tip of Mokapu Peninsula and Battery Arizona was to be placed near Kahe Point. Battery Pennsylvania was completed, after numerous difficulties, August 1945. It fired it’s guns once on VJ day and immediately became obsolete. Battery Arizona’s construction was cancelled mid-stream and never completed.
Interesting, there are many relics from Arizona’s superstructure rusting away on Waipio Peninsula.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB119672450795312374.html
http://ussarizonafacts.org/remnant1.htm
Jesse
You are absolutely correct about two turrets being left in the wreck. One turret is intact
and the other one had the guns and machinery removed. I have raw video of the first Park
Service dive on the ship. Sadly, the video is in Beta format but I’m looking to have it put on
DVD.
One of the shore batteries was emplaced at Maile Pt. There are a couple of bunkers at
Kahe point, too but, I suspect they were the end range sighting stations for Maile Pt.
I used to work at the Air Force Tracking station on top of Kaena Pt and have explored those
completely. At Maile, as late as 1987 the azimuth ring gear for the turret was still visible
embedded in concrete right above the Maile powerplant.
Many many old Coast Artillery sights on Oahu.
Ray
As an aside, since we’re talking about it, the guns from turret 2 were mounted on BB-36 USS Nevada after her work supporting the invasion of France in 1944. So they enacted some small amount of revenge when Nevada took part in the invasions of Iwo Jima and Okinawa.
As far as I know they were sunk a second time, permanently, in 1948 when Nevada was expended as a gunnery target.
