[font=Arial]Hey guys, I was wondering has anyone come up with the idea of doing a build of (lets say schweer panzer - abteilung 505) with each person picking a tank in that abteilung to make up what was in that abteilung ???
it just had me thinking and thats a dangerous thing lol
any feed back would be great thank Aaron [/font=Arial]
I’d be in depending on the model that waould be required. That would be a cool concept. This could be continued until we had a batallion.
Ted
Interesting idea. Any links about 505 to look at?
that is a really neat idea. Would it be any vehicle of the abteilung?
They probably had a few command halftracks in this unit…might I do one of those?
Ok, a few questions, how big is an ableitung, and, what year and season would this be in?
I like this idea, it gives freedom, yet restricts you to more of a group build mentality…
(also, where did this unit serve, what was its main vehicles(this could help add more people if you want them))
I bet Peridexion has the answers!
On paper, a typical Tiger Abteilung would be comprised of 45 Tigers in 3 companies. The actual breakdown would typically be 3 Tigers of the battalion staff, 2 Tigers for each company’s staff and 3 platoons of 4 Tigers for each company, for a total of 45 Tigers. Of course this was not always the case, but on paper, this is what they should be. These figures do not include maintenance and supply companies, reconnaissance, signals, combat engineers and flak platoons.
The sPzAbt 505 first operations took place in April, 1943, to the east of Orel, then it took part in Operation Zitadelle in the Orel, Dnieper and northern Ukraine sectors, ending up in the Cholm area. After rehaul, it was engaged in Narew, then in East Prussia, Goldap, Konigsberg and Samland. It’s last actions with it’s Tigers were in Pillau, north of Warsaw. Get out your geography books and locate all these areas. There will be a pop-quiz in 15 minutes…[:p]
You’re the man!
Was the Tiger I(P) in sPzAbt 505?
Nope. The only one known to have been used in combat was completed by Nibelungenwerk as a Panzerbefehlswagen with a new turret with a higher roof, issued to the battalion staff of sPzJgAbt. 653 in April, 1944.
A photo on page 28 of Germany’s Tiger tanks, shows a VK45.01(P), “one of several” issued to sPzAbt. 503 for testing and training. Of the 10 actually completed, 3 were converted to BergePanzer VI and 3 were completed with Ramm-Tiger superstructures. Only 4 remained as Panzerkampfwagen VI (P), 3 of these remained at Nibelungenwerk for testing, one went to the 653rd.
the Tiger (P) was in 653. schwere Panzerjager Abteilung with Ferdinands
so uh, would a halftrack be in for this?
they probably had the command staff travel in these, or in trucks/kubels, rather than tanks
so,
I can provide support elements to the ableitung, i don’t like very big tanks
It would be fun for two people, as a pair do a before and after thing also, like take a tank, and show it and crew at the sendoff for the front, and afterwards, what happened to the vehicle-although this might not really be the purpose of the build.
Which vehicles you can have together with the same markings all depends on which units we are talking about. Tigers were assigned to special heavy tank battalions, (schwere panzer abteilungen). These units were held at army or corps level and were assigned as needed to reinforce other units. Only a few divisions ever had organic Tiger battalions, like Grossdeutschland, Panzer Lehr, Feldherrnhalle, Nordland and probably a few other ad-hoc units with the mixed-bag of attached armor. SS divisions like Leibstandarte, Das Reich, Totenkopf, and the Panzer Korps Hermann Goring also had attached Tiger companies. Sometimes single companies of sPzAbt would be attached to PzGren. divisions for various campaigns or smaller actions. Because these heavy tank units would support various divisions at different times, they would not necessarily have the markings of the units they were attached to, most likely not. So, if you want a mixed group of Tigers, Panthers, SPWs, armored cars, etc, all belonging to the same unit, go for a division like Grossdeutschland.
That being said, you will find such things as SdKfz 250s in armored reconnaissance companies, radio vehicles like 250/3s and the like. A typical Tiger regiment would have 8 SdKfz 250s attached. 11-SdKfz 251s were also normally assigned to a heavy tank battalion.
For the complete breakdown of vehicles used, I need to find a organization table. I have one for a normal panzer division, but I can’t seem to find one for a heavy panzer battalion.
All this is making my head spin, too much stuff to look up and keep straight. [%-)]
Wow guys what a response this is great wasnt expecting all this great feed back.
i found this information on the 506th
"Schwere Panzer Abteilung 506 - sPzAbt 506
The 506th was formed in July 1943, primarily from personnel of III Abt./Pz. Rgt. 33 of 9th. Pz. Div… In August, the battalion received forty-five new Tiger I tanks. The unit was engaged in the Dnieper battles in 1943. On New Year’s Day, 1944, sPzAbt 506 went to the area south of Korovograd, and fought in Krivoi-Rog. In 1944, sPzAbt 506 was withdrawn to Germany for refitting and preparation for action in the West. Their Tiger Is were distributed as replacement vehicles to other units. sPzAbt 506 received new Tiger II Ausf Bs in August 1944. The full battalion establishment of 45 tanks was retained. In late September, the battalion was sent to the area around Osterboek, west of Arnhem. It took part in the German defense against the combined Allied thrust to the Rhine during OPERATION MARKET GARDEN.
The following month, sPzAbt 506 Took part in the defense of Aachen. In November 1944, the battalion was strengthened by the addition of a 4th company. This new company had been organized originally as a heavy assault support unit, used wherever necessary - a Feuerwehr (fire brigade). Its first commander was named Hummel, and this was the name given to the company. sPzKp. “Hummel” (now 4th company, sPzAbt 506) was equipped with Tiger Is. This new company was fully integrated by early December 1944.
The only Heer Tiger battalion to take part in the Ardennes offensive was sPzAbt 506. It took part in the defense of Germany and finally surrendered to US forces in the Ruhr pocket on April of 1945."
so the time table is from 43 till 45 but with more discussion we’ll norrow it down more
so i’ll wait for all your comments
OK, here we go, found this AWESOME WEBSITE
unfortunately, they have never gotten around to writing up the unit history/organization for the 506, but there is a lot on this site, maybe someone can come up with an organization table.
and here is some new damage(i edited this post)
http://niehorster.orbat.com/011_germany/__ge_index.htm
not there either, but cool info.
once again, no info on 506, but
http://www.ordersofbattle.com/
Some more great stuff-if you can read german!
not here though good pics!
HAHAHAHAHA I THINK I GOT IT!!! WOHOOO
go to this link, and apparently each panzer means, one individual tank in the ableigtung this is a cool site!
it also shows just Tiger I’s, and then Tiger II’s with the 4 company attached now.
enjoy, hope this is what you guys wanted
the main page is www.panzerdiesel.com
here is a link about heavy panzer battalions;
so is it going to be a Tiger with support group build