[:(]maj…im a big man and can admit when im wrong. i found out (the hard way) that as you had stated…there were no m1a2’s during the invasion of iraq in '03.[B)] the articles i read were wrong and the info i was given was just as wrong. so…i hope all as it was and we can move on from my unfortunate mistake. thanks in advance. [V] 60gunner.
Ok, go ahead and confuse me some more, why don’t you? [(-D]
I’ve read that the 3rd ACR had M1A2 (non-SEP) tanks in March/April 2003. I’m counting on this being true for my four M1A2 tanks. Hmmm …
Unless what we are saying here is that the invasion started March 20 (I think that’s right) and that the 3 ACR wasn’t there for any of the hostilities. (I don’t know either way – I’m just asking.)
I am curious about this one too! I was going to pick up another Tamiya kit to do a M1A2 for OIF, but looks like that wouldn’t be a wise idea!
sorry guys, no mia2 tanks were present in theater during the intial invasion. only division to have m1a2’s were from ft hood 4i.d. and they were wating off shore! they came in after the invasion!
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/agency/army/3acr.htm
This has a brief history on the 3rd ACR. Towards the bottom of the page the last several sentences discuss the 3rd’s participation after the invasion of Iraq.
The lead armored element of the US Army forces during the invasion was the 3rd Squadron, 7th US Cavarly of the 3rd Infantry Division. Easy to confuse the 3rd ACR with 3ID’s 3-7 CAV. That’s a lot of threes going around.
thanks!
WOOHOO They aren’t arguing over zimmermit and dunkelgelb
[:o)]
Ok, Rob, thanks. I think I’m getting my questions confused.
I think 3 ACR was the answer (obtained on missing lynx) to the question “which unit in Iraq used non-SEP M1A2s?,” because that’s what I’m building. Actually, two of the Tamiya decal options for the M1A2 version of their kit are for the 3 ACR. Tamiya says March/April 2003, but I guess it’s more April+.
Being an ex Zoomie myself (Air Force), can some one direct me to a website or tell me what the pecking order is for Army divisions, brigades, etc. Like what does an ACR consist of or what the difference is between an armored division and an ACR? Or a mechanized infantry?
In the AF we used to remember the order by the phrase;
How…(Headquarters)
Many…(Major command)
New…(Number AF)
Airmen…(Air division)
Will…(Wing)
Get…(Group)
Sore…(Squadron)
Feet…(Flight)
Larry,
As I stated over at M-L, 3 ACR didn’t come into country till MAY 03 (initial elements arrived in Kuwait in early April, entered Iraq early May), after the initial invasion, as follow-on forces. And they did have standard M1A2s, not M1A2 SEPs.
Hope that clears it up further.
An ACR is an Armored Cavalry Regiment, the largest self-supporting cavarly formation. One is assigned to each Army corps. Corps normally have 2 or more divisions.
A US Army heavy division (armor or mechanized infantry) contains 3 maneuver brigades, an engineer brigade, field artillery brigade, support brigade and an aviation brigade. There are some separate units like a signal battalion, chemical battalion, and MP company.
The maneuver brigades have either 2 tank battalions and one mechanized infantry battalion (called “tank heavy”), or one tank battalion and 2 mech infantry battalions (called “mech heavy”).
An Armor division has 2 tank heavy brigades and one mech heavy brigade for a total of 5 tank battalions and 4 infantry battalions.
A mech infantry division has one tank heavy brigade and two mech heavy brigades for a total of 4 tank battalions and 5 infantry battalions.
Both divisions also have a divisional cavalry squadron within the aviation brigade.
Pecking order:
Army
Corps
Division
Brigade
Battalion/Squadron
Company/Troop/Battery (Troops are cavarly companies, Batteries are artillery companies)
Platoons
Right. The particular date wasn’t all that important to me. I just wanted some evidence that standard M1A2s were used in Iraq, and if so who used them. Thanks for clearing it up. It’s not important to me that they represent vehicles used in the invasion.
???What about battle damage m1a2 sep in OIF ??? sound confusing … or those r fake pics ?
That did not occur during the invasion. It occurred as a result of an IED (mine placed by insurgents) after the invasion was over and the focus shifted to a role of occupation.
I will back-up what MAJ Rob said. The damaged M1A2 SEPs that you have seen have been after the initial invasion and from 4ID and 1st CAV. Neither of these units took part in the initial invasion. 4ID did not get into country till May '03, after the fall of Baghdad and the defeat of the Iraqi Army and government. 1st Cav deployed to Iraq in Nov '03. Both these units participated in the continuing counter-insurgency campaign and that is where M1A2 SEPs have been damages/destroyed.
Thank you.
Correction to HeavyArty - 4ID arrived in Kuwait 1st week of April03, went north the following week. Did see limited combat during initial invasion, primarily 1st BDE in Taji and also Tikrit. Not trying to nitpick, just that I was combat engineer company commander in 1st BDE 4ID then.