I don't get it....help me understand

General Discussion General Modeling Discussion
1

Ok, so let’s have a discussion. A peaceful one with no negative vibes.

Here goes. I really gotta get this off my chest. The Scale Auto Mag issue of being ended later this year has created an issue I thought I would never see or even dream up in this hobby. Plastic racism. WHAT!? Ya, that. Let me explain.

Those of us who have the SAM enjoy it very much and are sad to see it go, but not overly surprised that it is happening. And to read the threads over here on FSM regarding its end are the same. Sad, but not surprised. Okay Fine.

I also read, but seldom post, on SAM forums. So, out of curiosity I lurked around in the forums over there to see if the mood was any different. WOW!! Different was an understatement. I was shocked at the mood and the tone of the posts. Many, and I mean many, of the posts were seething with anger and hatred of FSM and the forums. Some of the posters eluded to the idea that cars/trucks and planes and tanks are simply incompatable on the same forums. One stated that the FSM crowd would not like to see hot pink tanks or metalflake F-16s and that for them to post on FSM about cars would simply be mixing oil and water. Really…REALLY!?

Now I get that auto/truck and armor and AC are different and some people build only one type and some build many types. But it’s all plastic, period. The forums here have a place for them all and the forums over there are basically exactly the same, just cars. I understand that the mags are greatly different, but they can be combined and inclusive of all the types and still be a great mag. And if that is possible, why can’t we all post in one forum on different threads, like we do here, focused on a specific topic?

If the SAM forums goes dark, there is no reason that all the threads over there can’t be combined with the forums over here, essencially making this one really big site. I think that would actually be the wise thing to do, rather than maintain two seperate sites. All we would change would be a larger car/truck section. Heck, the “cars only” folks could even just stay in that section and not venture out in the bad part of town that has armor or AC. Don’t go mixing with those AC builders, they are bad peeps. Seriously, how narrow minded can people really be.

It’s all plastic, and we are all builders. What difference does it make where you post if the site is nearly identicle to SAM and is run by the same company and many of the same people? Yes, the mags are different, and FSM may not ever be good enough, even with cars, to make the car builders happy. But, that is not the same thing as the forums. They are nearly identical, just different topics.

I just don’t get it…help me understand.

BK

2

Well they are angry and hurt that the beloved magazine is going defunct.Since Kalmbach is the publisher they feel that FSM is a fair target for their outrage!Since the only other car firum is Model Cars Mag which is on thin ice too they will eventually post on our Auto section .

3

I get it. But I don’t agree with it. This particular group of modelers is all about that genre and nothing else. It’s nice to have your own niche group, with its own magazine and website. But obviously that group was not enough to keep the magazine financially viable. And I don’t know how much it costs to run a forum like here or there, but if the magazine was going under, then why continue the site? If financial times get harder for Kalmbach, why continue to host a site for a magazine which they no longer publish.

Yes, the published material can easily be incorporated into FSM monthly publications, and the forum can be brought over to the website. Some will come over, some will not. Or they can seek out and/or create their own automobile centric modeling website. The internet is a big place.

4

Well said Stik!How would we feel of something happened to FSM?We would freak out too!

5

Hey Brandon, like you, I love SAM. In my case, much more than FSM. I love the fun nature of how SAM is presented, from the cartoon like tips, to the whimsical builds. It’s free spirited, and I love that. I find FSM too sterile for my spirit. I also feel SAM does a much better job at communicating how to do things. I am really disappointed the mag is going bye bye.

I whole heartedly agree that combining the two websites shouldn’t be a deal breaker, and it makes sence. Like you said, it’s all plastic. In my opinion, it would be great to have everyone together on one website. If FSM was smart… they’d revamp things to make it more inclusive to car builders, that they meld the two. But, seeing how they manage the forums, that seems like a major pipe dream.

I do understand the concerns of SAM folks, of being forced to migrate over to FSM. Again, in my opinion, both rags presented very differently. FSM will need to do some serious melding of the two to capture those folks. Hopefully, they make a serious attempt at this or they will surely alienate the SAM folk, and that customer base. To be honest though. I doubt FSM will. One only needs to look at how they manage the forums to get a sence of what to expect. I think that all leads to the rage the SAM folks feel.

My two cents.

6

I can’t help sort the problem BK, but I agree that there is an issue. I have seen this sort of animosity going both ways, but never understood why it had to be so.

Some people will always find something to fight about - I remember the slot cars vs model kits war back in the 1970s. Guys were getting really worked up about it, but as a little kid, I could not understand why there was such a big fuss.

On the local level, the car guys say the military guys don’t know squat about cars, while the military guys say the car guys are stuck on themselves. There was a time when the local IPMS chapter reached out to the car guys in the hopes of joining forces, but it soon fizzled, probably due to the very reasons that the effort was trying to resolve.

I think ignorance plays a big part here, like all prejudice. I like anime kits, and have been ridiculed for it. But my harshest critics make comments that reveal they have no idea what they are criticizing. They haven’t the slightest clue what lurks down the rabbit hole, and are convinced that their preconcieved notions that support their views are indeed fact.

I think good modeling is where you find it, be it military, auto, or anime. I’m not much of a car modeler, but I like seeing car builds, as I can learn a lot from them. I do hope the car guys migrate over to this forum and join our community.

7

Yes, I’m sure that the mood here would be quite similar for some folks if FSM said the magazine was done and the site’s future was as well.

How does anyone feel when they see a business go under that they like and have used for years? A favorite old store or restaurant? Especially one that is specialized. Another store may offer the same products, or restaurant may offer the same foods amongst a larger variety. But it’s never the same. There was a reason you were at the original joint and not the others in the first place.

8

I have a hard time faulting the reduction of a thing I get for free, so I say as goes retail, so goes advertising, which pays for this whole thing.

I’ll probably drift away from this forum before too much longer. It was nice while it lasted.

Bill

9

Really would be bummed if ya left GMorrison, .never had a beef with you and value your opinion, however if you feel it is time then fair winds and following seas good sir. The world is smaller so paths my cross again.

I’m with the majority here, the rift between pure auto modelers and everybody else is really kinda silly. There are bad actors on both sides, can’t point a finge with out four pointing back, I may not like seeing a candy colored metal flake lowerider '64 Impala but that does not mean I don’t respect the effort put forth to create it…l hope we can reach across the isle for the sake of the hobby.

10

I build model cars. But I also build just about every genre. I can remember when the aircraft guys were all upset about to many posts about other genres, on the old newsgroup rec.models.scale. Everyone is getting so partison these days- even with pandemics. Come on, folks, lighten up.

11

Ah, I see the misunderstanding. If I leave, it’l be because I can no longer log in without switching to Firefox, which I dislike, and no longer using my iPhone. The car mag thing, I have no opinion.

12

Man, I can’t tell you how it lifts my heart to see all these comments. This is why I like it here so much. What a great group of peeps.

GM, I feel your pain with the forums of late, I too have pondered fading away. But, after reading the responses today it has reaffirmed my belief that this is a great place to be. I hope you stay, we would all love that more than you may know.

To continue the discussion: I would love to see FSM increase in size and have something for all the major players. ie, a auto, plane and armor every month. Focus on tips and techniques, with a section like now with the ‘common man’ showing off his proud work. We can make this work if we make sure we are heard and not remain silent and let it just fall apart.

I know that it’s only a matter of time before they close that forum, it just doesn’t seem reasonable to have it up without any major revenue stream supporting it. Melding the two forums and mags can be done if the two sides welcome each other with open arms. I know there will be pushback as with all change, I would be sick if FSM were to be the one instead of SAM. But, I would feel far better if I felt I was welcomed by the other side if that were to happen.

I would like to come up with a way to reach out to the SAM members as a whole from the FSM forum members and let them know that we feel their pain and welcome them to join us with open arms. We all would be better for it. Heck, we could even just keep to our prefered topics; oh wait, we already do that now. If we could come up with a way, as a group, to show them that they are very much welcome here, we could turn this into an opportunity, rather than a boohoo moment.

Is there anyway to reach out to Kalmbach and have them create some sort of open letter from the members here to the members there to say “hey, come to the dark side, we have cookies”.?

I’d love to see some sort of post that we could all jump in on and sign to say, hey you are welcome here. There is literally no reason this can’t work aside from pure obstanance.

BK

13

The mags rely on contributors for articles, so they are kind of at the mercy of whatever comes their way.

Hmmm… Maybe some kind of campaign to get people to submit articles of all types is needed? If modelers from all corners sent stuff in, FSM could run a truly diverse, balanced model mag.

”When you learn to balance the tack hammer on your head, you will be able to head off your enemies with a balanced attack!” - The terribly mysterious Sphinx [:P]

I have never contributed an article, so it’s time to buck up and put my money where my mouth is. (Just a figure of speech - you don’t know where that money has been!) But seriously, think about contributing an article. Especially a subject that you don’t see often in the mag. We’ll all be better for it.

As my new avatar would say “Ya ya ya, unicorn papoi!”

14

Personally, I think the root of the animosity is money, money that was spent for a subscription to SA and not FSM. The SA guys want just car stuff, and they feel cheated that they won’t be getting just car stuff. I was not at all surprised to hear that SA was done, and I also fully expect that the forums will eventually be merged in the near future. Tim Kidwell did say the SA brand would live on thru FSM, so I’m willing to take a wait and see approach with this. Perhaps this will benefit all parties involved, I’m surely hoping it does.

15

I can understand why the readers of SAM are upset about being absorbed into FSM. FSM is really about armor, ships, figures and planes. There are few reviews and articles about cars, which is why I subscribe to SAM.

Regarding submitting documentation to FSM and SAM for articles. I have submitted two articles to FSM. Both were accepted for publication. One was about a 1/48 B-29 and the other was about a 1/48 B-58. I think that the reason that they were accepted was because both models were finished in Bare Metal Foil. FSM probably thought that since these aircraft were finished in BMF they would be an interesting and unique article for modelers to read.

Both FSM and SAM are always looking for “reader written” articles for publication. Providing FSM and SAM with documentation for an article is not an easy task. The model has to be photographed step by step as the build progresses. At the end of the build the photos need to be sorted and the bad ones discarded. Then the text for the article needs to be written in a style that resembles telling a story. Finally the photos and text need to be organized into an interesting story. Usually this includes adjusting the photos in Photoshop and rewritting the text numerous times. FSM may fine-tune the text, but they do not write any of the text. I enjoy writting articles, which is why I spend the time doing so.

16

I have seen contest tables loaded with outrageous over the top scratchbuilt, kitbashed armored “post apcoliptic” vehicles that rivel or even best the finest armor on the other table. We have common ground, we just need to be big enough to set aside our “differences”.

I too would be slighted and perhaps angry if FSM faded away however the market and venues for military subjects, planes included, is greater than for curbside, race, trucks…

17

Bingo! I subscribe to both for the same reason.

18

I am sad to see it go. I am primarily a car modeler, but venture into aircraft, and have subscribed to fam when able. If I cant have sa I’m happy with fsm. Having said that I think that offering a refund would be a proper thing for kalmbach to do. I hope fsm will include more auto stuff but I’m not holding my breath.

19

I suppose that the ending of SAM magazine (not to be confused with Scale Aircraft Modeler magazine) explains the constant deluge of emails and pop up ads here on this site for subscriptions to the magazine over the past year or so. Simply put, they needed more customers.

20

[quote user=“philo426”]

Well said Stik!How would we feel of something happened to FSM?We would freak out too!

[/quoteYou can freak out, but it is simple economics. There is not enough interest to drive sales to pay for it all. Look revell was the major car kit maker in USA but they are out of business too. I think the same is coming for fine scale and these forums. Enjoy it while you can…The times they are a changin’