You can say what you want about it. I know what I feel on the matter and that is not wrong, merely different than you, which to YOU is wrong I suppose It is a fact that Ken was non responsive on this matter and that is the truth. It sounds that I must have hit a nerve with your “Buy American” mentality on this which is not mature to begin with. Thats why there is foreign competition., sometimes they are just better as this case shows. Buy all the badger stuff you want, there is no stopping you but to put in the class of the Iwata’s and H&S is not very well thought through. I will not keep responding to Badger fans on this. I wanted an opinion on the Harder and Stennbeck that is up on ebay. I know that it superior to ANY badger, that was not the question. I wanted an opinion on the price.
I think that might be the key to your disappointment. An airbrush with a tip as small as the Krome is going to be fussier and more fragile. That’s why I don’t recommend it for general use. But, maybe you are used to tips that small.
I won’t argue with your judgement on Badger vs. Iwata, Grex, and H&S, because I’ve never tried them. You may be right. But, I’ve seen many comments on this and other forums by people who love their Kromes, some of whom also own the other brands. Maybe you just got a bad one. I am surprised you didn’t get a response from Badger support though. My experience is that they get right back to you. I did hear a while back that they were having some difficulty with e-mail, and that may have had something to do with it.
I’ve seen negative comments about almost every airbrush on the market. And, that includes H&S, believe it or not.
Don’t apologize for my Evolution and certainly agree with Doog about preference. However, the economics of the picture are interesting really. Santa brought me a new needle/nozzle for the Evo: it cost $50. With the new parts, the Evo’s performance is up considerably. I don’t know what parts run on a Badger, just I was on Chicago’s site and noticed that nozzles and needles for a Paasche VLS (my first brush and I still use it for Future etc) cost under $5. That’s a big difference. It means that, for instance, I put a new needle into a Paasche VLS every month for the price of one every Christmas for the Evo. As I’m finding out, new needles really make a difference. I was just watching Phil Foley compare his Evo with Iwata’s new top dog and the Iwata (.35 tip) sprayed a cleaner line than the Evo (.2) because it was new.
Eric, I read your post on the new H&S nozzle/needle set with intense interest. It brings out the engineer’s instinct from me. I have not used any of my airbrushes enough to notice the difference in wear first hand. I also wonder which Iwata is Phil Foley uses.
According to Milairjunkie, the H&S nozzle is made of Nickel Silver (60% copper, 20% nickel and 20% zinc), which is indeed a relative soft material compared to stainless steel.
According to Prof. Zsolt, who did a scanning electron microscopy and Energy Dispersive X-ray Spectroscopy (SEM/EDS) analysis of the Iwata nozzle and determined that it was made of Nickel based Superalloy. The needle was made of ordinary AISI 304 stainless steel. They are probably a better match in hardness. Even though Iwata uses ordinary 304 steel for their needle, they must have a special heat treat process for the steel because it is more springy and more resistent to accidental bending damage than most other brand of needles.
It is noticed that the Iwata CS nozzle (0.35 mm) is twice as expensive as the BCS (0.5 mm) nozzle and looks different.
Foley was comparing a standard HS Evolution with an Iwata Eclipse (gravity fed, small cup, .35 needle.) The issues he claimed led him to stray from Iwata eight years ago have all been fixed. (Guess the old one required tools to do some pretty simple stuff. Can’t confirm that.) He likes them both. Three points:
I have an HS Evolution Silverline. It has a knob at the end of the handle that limits airflow. The standard Evo and the Eclipse are described by Chicago as having “preset” handles. I’m not sure what that means exactly, but I don’t think they do what my Silverline does. The Paasche Talon is described the same way but it has a knob at the end that allows you to set the travel on the trigger and greatly aiding the modeler if you want to spray small volumes of paint. I don’t have enough experience with the various brands to pontificate. I can say that I mess with my air volume frequently. And I don’t know what it means if one brand touts their ability to handle any solvent (Badger does) and another brand doesn’t (the Evo doesn’t; the Silverline and Eclipse do) but I’d sure want to know.
The old nozzle on my Evo had grown considerably larger after a year and a half of use, and the needle was showing definite wear. If other brushes are superior in that regard it’s a real point in their favor. I can’t imagine a small nozzle brush not needing pretty frequent cleaning and I’d guess it was cleaning that degraded the nozzle. I’m not going to knock the engineering on the Evo, but it may be that I’m using the airbrush equivalent of an Audi. But it’s cheaper.
Phil Foley’s site “Foley Models” is a terrific place. It’s worth a visit as it stands, but you have to pay about $5 a month for full access. I think the value added is considerable. You don’t get a magazine, but Foley has I’d guess about 30 video builds (grows by one every month) that subscribers can watch. These are simply Foley building a model (heavy aviation orientation). They also last 3 hours a shot, although are very well made and allow you to move about in the various chapters easily. Along with the site’s video tutorials and extensive photo-build sections, I’d take what is available there over FSM magazine in a second. (Not knocking FSM, I just wonder how much more I can learn from a magazine. The board is much more valuable to me as a modeler.) Our board is bigger, but the board at Foley’s is very helpful. It’s about half Brit and they’re a congenial folk: the group moderators also pitch in. Anyway, a very nice site. I wish FSM would look at those video builds. MIG and AK are selling weathering DVDs briskly at $20 a pop and they last 50 minutes. Our videos are very nice - and very meager: you’re better off on YouTube.
Among the airbrushes in discussion, the Evolution Silverline and the Badger Krome both have preset handle as standard. H&S calls the preset handle “adjustable paint control”. The preset handle for the Iwata HP-CS comes as an $35 option. But you get get it from BearAir for $18.
I was a subscriber to the Promodeller web site for about 2 years and enjoy many of the videos that you mentioned. I let the subscription dropped when Phil changed his policy on access and increased the fee. $60 a year is a lot for a magazine subscription. I decided to keep only FSM and AirFix Model World. I still like the stash of paper that I can read anytime, anywhere. (Yes, I know about the Ipad. No, I am not going to get one.) Besides, there are too many free sites in the US and videos on the YouTube.
I agree with everyone that the choice of airbrush is very personal and human brain are amazingly adaptive to the balance and trigger action. But there are some element that are also objective. For example, the smoothness and precision of the trigger is one. The durability of the needle is another. In term of basic performance, I personally believe that CS, Evolution and Krome are very similar. And the Patriot is far behind and not belongs to this group. It is just personal opinion to the airbrushes that I have.
The Evo Silverline & the Eclipse (as an option) both have needle travel limiters fitted to their rear bodies / handles, these don’t alter airflow in any way, they limit needle travel & hence paint flow. I’m not familiar with the Talon, but I imagine it’s the same.
Suitability for solvent based paint is down to the needle seal material, PTFE / Teflon being solvent resistant. All current H&S products feature Teflon needle & nozzle seals, although only the CRPlus variants feature a Teflon paint cup seal. The Evolution Silverline is touted as being more suited to solvent based paints in comparison to the standard Evolution as the standard models nitrile / viton “grip rings” are deleted on the Silverline.
I should have put the point more clearly. It’s true that the valves on an airbrush don’t limit the airflow - you do that with the compressor. Limiting the travel of the trigger, however, has an effect that is very similar for real world applications. Call it “disaster insurance.” If I want a real thin and easy flow my finger is willing to give up its freedom to open the throttle. No doubt better modelers would not need this feature, but I’d guess a lot of people would like it.
Different strokes about mags. I do like getting my eye candy but pick up very little from any given issue. Right now I’m in the process of going through my old issues and removing the articles that I can use (usually something that pertains specifically to a project) and jettisoning the flotsam. I’ll make a PDF out of the survivors and keep the originals in a folder. But not even the best of the articles are as helpful as a proper video build. I don’t regret sending Mig Jimenez or Adam Wilder $20 a pop to see them in action. And probably the best airplane I ever made was an Eduard FW-190: one of the models that Phil Foley made. I just kind of followed the bouncing ball (except for closing the plane and giving it an entirely different paint job. Might try it with a Dragon PzIV which Foley also built: very interesting because he brings a plane makers technique to armor whereas I bring armor techniques to ships and planes. Not as well of course.) As it stands Foley’s site remains well worth it to me. I just wish FSM would catch on even at a more limited scale on the video issue. I also wish that FSM subscribers had open access to all articles from past issues - as it stands their policy on access, when combined with a pretty lame search engine, cripples the value of the magazine. How many times have thought “I read something about that in FSM” and then be cluess concerning where? That would never happen on Foley’s site. Glad I can afford them both: combined they’re still less than one 32 scale Tamiya Mustang and not that much more than a Tasca Sherman.
$5.50 ? per month. Money well spent. There is a load of video and it is well made and entertaining. He is an excellent modeler and just a regular guy too.
Phil Flory it is. Why not misspell it: I’ve visited the site five times a week for a year and a half and watch the weekly news report without fail. My wife is a reading specialist and when she’s feeling nice she’ll say that people that read as fast as I do (or used to) often become terrible spellers. When she’s grumpy, I simply become stupid. Probably somewhere in between. (I once misspelled my middle name to a cop - no joke. Caused a sticky moment.)
Hope the thread continues for a little while. I’m doing a pretty good job of convincing myself that I need one more decent airbrush. The top gun in St. Paul is a Master and I don’t really like moving the Evolution across country on a regular basis. I have been known to lose things.
No I didn’t. I took what I would have bid and ordered a Badger Krome instead. All the positive coments about it are swaying me. When it arrives I willpost my thoughts.
I will be interested in what you think. I have been on the fence about the Krome. I have the Velocity Renegade already so don’t if it would be something I would need.
I will let people know what I think, but that is certainly not an expert opinion. I just build models. I don’t mind admitting I was wrong and I may have been in puting down Badger and this airbrush, if I have offended anyone, I apologize.
As to your renegade, I would not expect worlds of difference between that and the a Krome. Will it be an improvement, yes, but not such a leap as from a Bager 100 to a Krome. If the budget allows you then go ahead. A well made tool is always a benifit. What you have is pretty good too.
I’m not a big fan of the flow limiter adjustments, It’s kind of a crutch if you begin relying on it.and it’s not worth the extra money to me … same with the micro flow controls, I can adjust my regulator for that.
I understand If someone has issues with finger strength and tension it could be helpful
but for most people it’s really an un-necessary expense, when the same airbrush without those doo-dads sprays just the same.
Which preset handle are you talking about? Badger, H&S or Iwata? How did you use it?
The preset handle comes standard on the higher end model such as Badger Krome, H&S Infinity and Iwata HP-C Plus. For those who needs or wants the better airbrush, it comes with preset. It is not exactly an extra cost options for the high end.
The better airbrushes also allow user to adjust trigger tension. The perset handle is NOT for this purpose. It is sort of like a limiter when spraying fine lines. You don’t use it very often in modeling. But it comes in handy if you need it. I suspect artists use it more and that’s why the high end has it.
Among the Badger airbrushes, only the SOTAR and Renegade comes with the preset dial. The preset needs a small linear flow angle to work well.
I don’t think a majority of model builders need that level of control.It’s a case of spending more for things that will be seldom used…when a lesser model from the Iwata line for example, will do the same job.
military models are not the same as a high end super-detailed automotive graphic.
nothing wrong with those options, I just wanted to toss in my opinion that they are not necessity’s
some newcomers to airbrushing may get the impression that preset handles and flow controls are necessary and spend more than is really needed
CS vs. BCS nozzle 