depiction isn’t the same as glorification…
seems like most of us build this stuff out of an interest
in history &/or technology
& that most of us have asked ourselves this same question
& come up with the same answer.
my personal solution ?
i’ve started modeling a series of unarmed ARVs
basically armored vehicles that tow other tanks
‘tanks that help’…
u can see 1 in the Armor section under ‘frosty’s m32 arv’ thread.
frosty[:)]
This is a good thread. [tup]
Have got me thinking about my hobby.
Its not wrong to encourage young people to model.
Think about it. People who acuse us of beeing “war lovers” don’t know much about history, how do I know this? I have met plenty of those people, and when I talk to them I find that they don’t know much about what happened in WWII ( The period that I model the most ).
They think Im some sort of Nazi because I model German tanks. But then I tell the stories of the war that I have read in my reference books, and they say " Is that how it happened " And I say " yes; that is why we are free today ".
Anyone who builds models also have some interest in history, by encouraging a youngster to model you also encourage him / her to learn about history, make them realize the price of freedom. Maybe they will value their freedom and the price their forfarthers had to pay for it.
last year me and some friends where at a show in Germany. One of my friends had some old toy soldiers for sale. It was German soldiers from WWII, and one of them carried a flag with a swastica on it.
In Germany the swastica is forbidden, also on models, so we had to be careful. A german noticed the soldier and ask us about it. He said " I don’t know why its not allowed to show a swastica on a model, its a part of our history and we have to learn to live with it. We can’t just deny that it ever happened "
Through modeling I have learned things about the past that I would not have learned otherwise. I think you should encourage all that you meet to start modeling, so they can learn about their history. Feeling guilt about modeling?? No! never have, and never will. Thats my [2c] worth.
A friend in the club has been selling on e-bay. Some of the stuff that does best is WWII German. As a result of this, he has been doing commissions of some SS in parade uniforms. He has confessed to feeling somewhat queasy at what he perceives as some less desirable types collecting his work and possibly setting up shrines to the SS. I look at his work and love the quality of the detail and the artistry he brings to his figures but do not judge him by the subject.
I think modeling would have the opposite effect. I don’t think it would serve to glorify war. On the contrary (for me anyway). It reminds me of how terrible it really is. When I look at the model of my B-17, in my head I hear the thunder of the engines, smell the smoke of the exhaust, feel the concussions from the flak (I can only imagine though) and then I see the blood running on the floor of the cockpit which just got ripped open by exploding cannon shells and I see the dead crewmen being removed from the hatch after the plane has landed. I think that we have the responsibility to remember what really happened in and because of these planes and be thankful for the freedom they created. Perhaps another way I can think about it is that the models create a reverence and awe of what they represent rather than a glorification of war.
Just my two cents,
Eric
I feel no shame or guilt in modeling a piece of history anymore than I do for owning firearms and hunting and fishing.
It is a useful and relaxing past-time.
Nothing that I build hurts anyone and nothing that I harvest in the hunting field, lake or river goes to waste.
There is nothing shameful or disrespectful about either one of these past-times.
This is just my humble opinion.
Randie [C):-)]
calling someone a war lover because they make models of military things is like saying someone who studies russian history or builds models of soviet planes / tanks ect a communist or someone who specialises in WW2 german military a nazi, its just plain stupid and very narrow minded. i loath the idea of war and violence though i do realise it is sometimes a necesary evil, its the equiptment and history that interests me. i have a small part of a B25 mitchel and it came with a tag with the aircrafts Bu Air no and some day i will look up its history, not because i want to learn how many people got killed by it or in it (if any)but just because the research is interesting to me. so i for one am not a war lover.
Greg
btw, the B25 part isn’t for sale [:)]
Military equipment is like almost everything else created by human beings - it can be put to either good or bad purposes. It is the same with models. If a modeler gets a perverted self-gratification by reveling in the cruelty, destruction, rape, and death that accompany war, then guilt is well deserved. On the other hand, if the modeler’s craft reveals something about mankind -our history, our successes and failures, our works and deeds - then the product his/her effort may approach art.
Just my opinion, such as it is…
I have no guilt for modeling armor. In fact i do it almost as a rememberence. Same goes for reenacting. And they are both fun!!![:D][:D]
Guilt?
I like science and technology that’s why I am into this hobby modeiling planes, tanks and other technical stuff.
And that is all there is to it.
No Guilt. The military has produced things that have made there way to civilian life. War is bad, but I wonder what life would be like right now had their been peace for the last couple of centuries.
I built models as a kid, way before I went to Vietnam. I just thought that military hardware was the coolest stuff around. History and facination with these machines is the root cause of my addiction. The military subject matter, that is, replicating machines designed to kill our fellow man, seems to me to be a perverted motivation. The real thing is the real thing, and we should all divide this fact from what we do. Craftsmanship and art are the points of satisfaction. I doubt whether German Armor model enthusiasts are Nazis. I doubt whether someone building the Memphis Belle takes any satisfaction as to the effect of her bombs, and so on. I think we can pursue what makes us happy in life without worry, I know I will.
I only wish that what is being said in this thread could be published and become part of the education of todays youth[^] Each and every one of us that model historical war remember why it was fought and what price was paid[sigh]
As I said in another thread was that over 70% of Americans do not know the significance of Memorial Day[B)] Modeling will help keep alive the rememberance of those that died for us. I am a 31 year veteran and I thank all those that served before me and those that are serving now[bow] I am proud to have you of the forum part of the life style I prefer to live[8D] Thank you all[:D]
Richard
I guess whenever I have had this topic brought to my attention, I give the same answer I have given for 25 years. Jim Dunnigan, former editor of Strategy and Tactics, stated in an issue something to the effect that ‘…if I was a researcher and built models of cancer cells, would I be a cancer monger’. I cannot find the exact quote in the very disorganized bookshelves, but the idea is the same…we do this thing (plastic modeling, whether armour,aircraft, ships; or wargaming whether board or computer) to learn, to understand, and definitely not to destroy.
I’m planning to take over the world, and use my models to develop new technology and strategy.[}:)] I need a few field marshals. Any volunteers?
I have always loved airplanes, their paint and markings. I thought the Defiant was a neat plane before I saw a good representation of it, or found out what a failure it was. I don’t think military modeling is wrong, a glorification of war, or anything else. Ban military history books. People reading them might be tempted to actually recreate the events depicted in the books. We are all sooo gullible.