I have to vent, I am working on a Marder II from Dragon and have become very aggrevated at myself, no matter how slow and methodical I go I can not get the results I want from this model, this only being my 13th or so model and my 2nd armor model I guess I shouldnt be so hard on myself, but I just cant stand my lack of ability, I am losing parts to the abyss, breaking off parts I have put in place and not getting parts just the way I want them. Now I must say this is my best build yet, but with the difficulty of the model I have really gotten myself mad. Just thought I would get online and vent. By the way anyone have some good suggestions for working with near microscopic photo-etch parts? I am already using a head lamp with multi power magnification. I just cant get the tiny parts to go together and not fly around.
dallasa,
As an old time modeler who has renewed his interest in armor I understand exactly! My ‘carpet monster’ repeatedly ate parts this weekend and sometimes they were scratchbuilt pieces I’d labored over or at least ‘needed’ parts that then caused scratchbuilt replacements to be fashioned!
There’s a fair consensus on this board that the Dragon PE tool clamps at least are finicky at best and some would say near impossible to utilize so you’re not alone on that one either! There’s a great thread on this board right now which speaks about the Dragon PE clamps and alternatives which I found useful and you might find it on the first couple of pages still?
But I just thought I’d speak up and let you know you’re not alone yet I’m sure that you’ll adapt and overcome, retain or reclaim your sanity and eventually realize again that it was all worth it and ultimately enjoyable!
In the meantime, vent away and know that we hear Ya![:D]
I think we have all been stuck in this rut before, sometimes it’s hard to dig yourself out and keep moving ahead. My Dragon Night Fighting Panther G has been sitting on my desk for a couple of months now, stuffed back in the box after assembling just a few parts. After I took a good look at the 5 page tweak sheet and realized what a pain this was going to be to fix some of the problems, I lost interest and switched to building some figures instead.
I used to build models for a living, building something from a box should be a piece of cake for me, compared to building museum pieces from scratch, but I still get frustrated at times and loose interest. Put the Marder down for a while and let your aggravation die down a bit, then come back to it when you feel motivated again.
Hey, this is supposed to be fun, isn’t it? [;)]
I used to have real problems with small PE until I bought some high-end tweezers. What a difference they make. Here are the ones I got:
http://www.tamiyausa.com/product/item.php?product-id=74048
http://www.tamiyausa.com/product/item.php?product-id=74047
At around $40 for the pair, they are expensive but worth every penny. I was amazed at the tooling quality of these tweezers. Since I’ve had them, I’ve not flung a part from my tweezers yet. Just something to think about…
Jesse
i have been building afv’s for decades and all i can say is that we’re getting exactly what we wished for: more variety and detail to go along with it. after all these years the only thing that doesn’t change is how crazy the process can make you.
Go to the forum page where you posted this. On the left hand side there is a prompt that says “post”, right beside that is the “search” feature.
Click on “search” and do some questions pertaining to your difficulties. The results most likely will be more far reaching than the advice I could type in a week.
Extensive photo-etch on your second armor build? Well, in my opinion that could be quite a job.
Don’t get mad, 
get better.
Steve
My third AFV build has plenty of minuscule PE too (Dragon PzKpfw IV D 3-in-1). However, it provides a backup set of tools with the clamps moulded on them, so I won’t be forced to use all the PE provided.
Thanks guys for the replies, I decided to put the Marder down for a few days, I have a 1:144 constellation (the Los Pasanos from Minicraft) that I picked up at Hobby Lobby for $4, so I think I will put in a few hours on it before going back to the Marder. (By the way it does not have any PE and only has about 20 parts total. I will however spend sometime painting it to look like bare sheet metal (pre-paintshop)
Dallas
Steve I know it seems that PE on my second armor build isint quite a smart move, but I knew that I had to jump in at some time and since I only paid $15 for the kit I knew I wouldn’t be to mad if I totally messed it up
Dallas
I tape some cardboards around my desk and press my chest against the edge where I’m sitting. You can also work on a piece of cloth or something and use your hand to shield the small parts when you cut. Sanding small parts can be a pain, so get yourself a good pair of cutters.
Good pair of tweezers (something $10-20) can help grab small parts. Files, scissor, drills, knives, wires, etc. These are all necessary tools to operate on a model. Practice cutting, shaping and gluing PE pieces, then plastic parts will be cakewalk[swg]
PZ IV is complicated/messy, but everything is straight and square, not too bad to start with. King tigers are some of the easiest models with or without PE (except PE rear fender, an option you don’t have to take).
[tup] Okay.
$15 ?
[^] Then you can credit this one to experience.
That’s not a bad price to learn.
Make the most of it.
[:)] We all start somewhere!
Steve
I agree with the tweezers recommendations–I have like, 7-8 styles of hi-quality tweezers of various styles and points. After a little while, you learn what heads are right to hold which parts.
I also use a 3X reading glasses behind my Optivisor–not because my eyes are THAT bad, but because the bigger you can see the durned things, the better you can manipulate 'em.
Hey I was wondering in Doog would pipe in!
Anyway I do have a nice set of 5 tweezers, but may want to invest in the ones posted above, I also like the idea of a drop cloth to find the parts I fling around.
Doog I have a optivisor style binocular magnifier with interchangable lenses and light (it really helps). I think at this point my major problems are as you said before the way I hold the part, and I also think I need to start using faster setting CA or accelerator (any suggestions?)
Dallas
Accelerator is always a good bet, but you have to be sure you don’t glob up the glue by using too much.
The Optivisor rules!
A real fine-tipped tweezer will do wonders, as well as a flat “stamp” tweezer which will increase the surface area of hold; this is great for PE, IMO!
Dallas,
Working with PE for the 1st or 2nd time can be frustrating.
Here are tips that is very important when working with those PEs;
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When all PE parts still attach in it’s fret and on flat surface, always give a good sanding with 320 or 180 grit sand paper back and forth. The idea is to scratch the PE surface so that glue and primer can have a good grip.
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Work a piece at a time then take a big break.
Dont worry about your 1st or 2nd attempt with PE does not produce a good result. Many modellers here I’m sure have at least several sacrificial model as training ground or test bed.
Ben
I’ve found Dragon’s brass photoetch to be very brittle, so I anneal the whole thing (the metal, not the plastic, lol) prior to use. It will make it much easier to use. I like using hemostats for working with PE, that way I can screw around without relying on constant hand pressure.
CUZ they were made by LR, and LR uses sh*tty brass. Voyager uses cheap brass too but a little better than LR. Aber PE rarely rarely break.
What about Eduard PE ?
Ben
IMO no good. some might find eduard easier to make (more pieces only require bending instead of inserting or precision gluing). but since their metal is so thin and soft, mishaping and breakage will always happen, the end result usually aren’t so satisfying.
Eduard’s details aren’t the best either. In fact, sometimes they’re worse than plastic. They aren’t very good examples to practice on if you planned moving to higher grade PE. Eduard has different constructions than the aber school of designs, which is wildly used/pirated by other PE companies.
Royal model constructions are sometimes similar to eduard. I’ve seen bad royal designs though, so money doesn’t always get you quality.
I want to clarify something though. The new LR stuff used better brass. Still not aber quality but very close, and at fraction of the cost.
Well, just gotta weigh in on this one–I’ve used Eduard PE extensively in my builds–in “SPOOKED!”'s Pz IV, on my DML Hetzer posted here, and recently on my Brummbar. I have NO COMPLAINTS with it. It is true that there are some RARE “questionable” parts–like the jack contraption–but all in all, I feel that Eduard provides a good deal for the money–reasonably priced, mostly-accurate, and easy-to-work-with.
Aber is fine too, but if you’re a relative neophyte to PE, and are already having frustrations with it, an ABER set is going to frighten the dickens out of you! They are well-known for being so “thorough” and super-detailed in their level of detail that a lot of even experienced modelers and PE guys like me have a brief moment of terror when opening their kit directions and looking at what’s on the menu. [:O] Don’t get me wrong–I’m not disparaging them, just saying that they are VERY detailed, to the point of me sometimes shaking my head and saying "C’mon–are you serious???" LOL! But THAT"S JUST ME!!! [:-^] YOu may find them perfect for what you’re trying to achieve…
I would enthusiastically recommend Eduard for you–their brass is just fine, IMO, and easy as heck to work with. The level of detail is excellent, and unless you’re really “counting rivets”, you’ll find their depictions and parts perfect for the level of detail and accuracy that you want.