I only use testors glue for all my models it works great for everything but big parts to big parts i keep getting smudges along the fuselage and it ruins the paint job. Any tips or different glues i could use that i don’t have to get it shipped from halfway around the world.
Depends on what type of “Testor’s glue” you are using. If it’s the stuff in the black bottle with the metal applicator tip, that’s good for general stuff. For large sections (fuselage halves, upper and lower wings, etc) I would suggest looking for something like Ambroid Pro-Weld or Tenax 7R. These are both liquid cement, but thinner, and are usually applied with a small brush (like the black handled Micro-Mark brushes or those white Testors brushes that everybody throws out). Basically, these cements melt the plastic together through chemical reaction, and is so thin that a very small amount can be used and will flow down the halves (you will see it referred to as “capillary action” on the forums here and elsewhere).
Here is the stuff I’m talking about:
Hope this helps out some.
How is the glue ruining the paint? Are you assembling painted parts?
I like Testors glue, its what I use. If the glue gets on bare plastic, you can just sand it off once it dries. I don’t have a lot of problems with it, what exactly is happening to your builds?
OWL
Was about to ask the same thing, Shooter…
First of all, you need to do most of your assembly prior to painting… What can’t be assembled prior, needs to have the paint scraped off where the gluing surfaces join.
I have four glues on my bench, not including Elmer’s White and Wood glues…
Testor’s Model Master Black Bottle Liquid Cement
Testor’s Pink lable Liquid Cement
Generic CA (“Super”) glues
Methyl Ethel Keytone (MEK)
I also keep a tube of Testor’s Model Cement as well, but have little use for it (although, there ARE a few applications for it, none of which are within the scope of this thread)
Ok, if you’re using Testor’s tube glue, you’ll want to probably try something else… While a lot of guys go with the more “exotic” stuff like the afore-mentioned Tenax, I find it’s too “hot” for most of my applications, too expensive, and evaporates too quickly… My choices are these: Testor’s Model Master liquid (black bottle w/ hollow needle applicator), Testor’s Liquid (Pink Label), and CA (ie "Super) glue that’s on the cards found in grocery stores( and about everywhere else) at like 5 tubes for 1.99… Other “Model Company Brand” types of glues are often at the high-end of price-per-ounce and don’t really offer any more “power” than Testor’s does…
The trick is in appliction… First of all, if you can, always build in sub-assemblies… Cockpits are particularly tricky because a lot of it has to painted prior to assembly, and that goes against all common sense… Engine are generally left to be painted after assembly, although some parts may have to be doen prior, especialy radials… But what you have to do is one of two things. Either scrape/sand away any paint where the parts are to be joined (cement will just dissolve the paint and run out of “steam” before it gets a chance to melt the styrene and form a good weld), or use CA (CyanoAcrylate, or “Super”) glue on the painted parts.
CA has a good amount of hold with lots of strength, but it’s shear-strength (hold against lateral separtion) is rather poor… t doesn’t dissolve the plastic and form a weld like cement does, it just “sticks” the parts togeter… If applied to a painted surface, it’s actually stuck to the paint, and not the plastic. The bond is only as good as the paint-to-plastic bond is.
I usually assemble cockpits after painting, using CA. This’s because I don’t need a lot of strength here.
However, I don’t get into “How to Glue” here, since I doubt this is your first rodeo…
For assembly of the major components, I use both the Black Bottle liquid and the Pink label liquid… Black more often than not… But here’s the trick to using it. Lightly sand the ENTIRE mating surface of BOTH parts to be joind, like upper and lower wing-halves or fuselage halves… The Testor’s Black will “Bite” into the sanded surfaces much more than it does on the out-of-the-box surfaces… It’ll also set more rapidly. Run a bead of it all the way around tONE surface, to include the alignment points as well (IF they are actually doing their job. Sometimes you have to shave the things off, but that’s beyond the scope of this post.)…
Using Testor’s Pink is a little different. The applicator brush in the cap is practically worthless, so get a couple decent, “0” point brushes for precision gluing, and a decent “1” for larger/longer runs… Sand the parts, same as for the black label, but at this time, you’ll want to assemble the parts, keeping only the tiniest of gaps between the points you’re going to apply the cement at. Dip the brush into the bottle, and jus touch the tip of it to the joint. Capillary action will carry it along the seam and into all the nooks & crannies, panel lines, and yes, your fingers and their prints… So apply glue ONLY where you’re NOT holding it… Frankly, the inside of the part is better than the outside, and only applying it in enough spots to hold together initially is your goal… You can glue it up tight later, after these initial applications have set (usually about 2-4 minutes) enough be handled.
Once the stuff is set, then go around say, the fuselage joint, applying the brush to the joint as gaps present themselves, ALWAYS being mindful of where your fingers are in relation to any panel lines… Now, generally speaking, I use Testor’s pink much more on Armor models than aircraft fuselages and wings… Since I can glue from the back, it doesn’t matter if any glue gets out of where it’s supposed to be…Its better for gluing drop tanks, bombs, parts that need to be in place before they’re glued, etc…
Don’t worry about cleaning the pink label glue from your brush. It’ll evaporate almost as soon as you’re done, and you need to little more than just bend the bristles a bit to make ‘em soft again. Just remember that the glue is supposed to flow from the brush like ink from a pen; Touch & flow, dip, touch & flow, so on an’ so forth… If you “paint” the glue on, you’ll just load up the bristles with a bunch of melted styrene and it’ll evaporate before you can join the parts. However, if you DO have bunch of plastic in your brushes, just swish the brush around in the glue bottle to clean it right up…
So… Let’s review…
Glue before painting . If you can’t, or you’re gluing any material other plastic to the plastic, use CA. It’s just like manufacturing the real things… They, meaning the major parts, don’t go from the paint shop to welders/riveters…
Sand the mating surfaces… Doesn’t have to be completely done, just “take the shine off” the styrene where they’ll join up. Make sure there’s NO paint on these surfaces though.
Apply the Black Label to the fuselage/wing-halves. Not too much, because when you squeeze them together, melted plastic will “ooze” out… This is OK though… Just don’t mess with it. Leave it alone until it’s set, then shave it off with your knife… It also helps fill gaps… But if a LOT comes out, you’re using too much glue. “Less is more” applies here… If the joint is weak, you can apply pink label liquid there to tighten things up.
Get a couple decent gluing brushes, “0” and a “1” will suffice. Later you may want to get some “00” or even “0000” for applying just ONE dot… of… cement… right… THERE!
When using the pink label liquid, WATCH YOUR FINGERS. Capillary action will cause the glue to run into everything you want glued, and many things you DON"T want glued…
One other thing about Pink label liquid… It also “Unglues” parts rather nicely as well… If you make a mistake, and a part isn’t exactly where you want it but has already set, just apply a little liquid (NOT black bottle though) to the joint and gently work it. It’ll come loose in a few seconds…(But NOT on CA-glued parts)
Removing a CA-gled part is relatively easy too… Just bend it at the joint. DON’T try to Pull it apart. That’s where CA glue’s at it’s strongest… “Sideways” pressure against the joint is it’s weakest hold.–> ← It can also be dissolved with acetone, ie; nail-polish remover… Watch that stuff too, though…It’ll attack some plastics…
Last but not least, the “specialty glues”, like Tenax and Gorilla Glues, are best left to projects after you get a better handle on gluing… Tenax, like I said, is really HOT, expensive and evaporates FAST… You can lose half a bottle in a couple hours if left uncapped… It’s also about to be discontinued and will soon be pretty hard to find, so I’d just forget the stuff… Can’t miss what you never used… However, MEK is a really good replacement, and will last a long time if you buy it in quarts at the hardware store, at about 7.00 per quart… So if you want to use it, buy it that way, and not in little bottles that can run about 7 bucks an OUNCE…
Good luck, and stop painting before gluing! (if you can get away with it)
Wow Hans, was that your year end “Threadathon” or what?
Well explained.
Was kinda wordy, weren’t it…
Sorry 'bout that…
[:$]
Yeah, Hammer, I think you set a personal record there.
New meds… Feeling a bit “Chattier” today…[whstl]
I agree. I use a combination of glues for specific parts and purposes.
Testors Model Master Black Bottle with metal applicator for large areas like fuselage halves or wings
Tamiya Thin (orange cap) for small areas I need to set fast that are not suited to a CA glue.
Great Planes CA Glue in Thin, Medium, and Thick consistencies for various gap filling jobs or reinforcing already glued but weak bonds.
Zap a Gap slow set extra thick for large gap filling jobs.
I would never advise gluing near or on an already painted surface unless you have absolutely no choice since the bond will not be strong and it will mess up the paint pretty badly. If you have to glue on an already painted surface, then sand off the paint where you will be gluing.
whew !! Hans… it hurts my eyes… lol.[:P]
[dto:]on Hans’ thome…
I would add… Tamiya, extra thin… and the aplicator brush is very good… I use it in the testors…
Tried that stuff once… Never liked it, since it set so slow it had a tendancy to sag… I used baking soda as an accelerator, which works almost instantly, but makes for a rock-hard joint on top of it… REALLY hard to sand… Using baking soda on the thin stuff I buy in the grocery store, that’s another story… I can build it up in layers, the baking soda sets the CA in just a second or two, and I can get away with just a few swipes of the sanding pad after each application…
Still have to touch it up with putty, but I use a thinned mixture of Testor’s Wite and rubbing alcohol, which fills the little pin-holes that always appear, and an alcohol-dampened finger takes care of it out to the point no sanding is required…
Big gaps (1/8th-inch or better) still get sprue or strip put in, then puttied & sanded…
The nice part of the really slow set is you have a chance to clean up any overspill out of the seams and form a nice fillet before it sets up. I normally use the medium or thin stuff to create the primary bond. Once that has set up for at least 24 hours, I use the super slow and thick stuff to fill remaining gaps. I then use a prep pad with some debonder on it (just barely damp) and clean up the overspill before using an accelerator or letting it set up on it’s own. I just have to be careful not to get the debonder into the fillet joint itself.
Doesn’t slow-setting defeat the purpose of “Super” glues? I mean, I use them to glue painted surfaces, and “instant bonds”… Seriously, I’m not being (intentionally) a smart-azz, lol… Just don’t understand the concept… I clean up the thin stuff with a finger (and the resulting skin-issues that follow, naturally), but never got the thick stuff to behave…
Not really… Think of it like this. visualize 2 pieces like a wing and fuselage assembly pair, The Monogram 1/32 P47 Thunderbolt is a perfect example. There is usually a large gap between the wings and the fuselage but the gap doesn’t go all the way top to botton, there is going to be some surface making contact. You use a fast set on that part to get the bond you want and get the wing angle of attack and dihedral the way you want. Now, after the actual glue is set up, you use a fine applicator tip and fill the remaining gap with the slow set stuff. The reason for slow set is so you have time to kind of sculpt the joint fillet to look right and get rid of excess glue before it sets and you have to sand it. That’s where debonder comes in to wipe off any unwanted glue that may have gotten on the wing or fuselage. You need the extra time the slow set gives you because it can take a while to do this step. In the meantime the thinset fast dry stuff is providing the actual primary bond. When you have the sculpting and cleaning up done, then either wait for the thick to set up or use an accelerant to speed up the cure time on the fillet. I just started using this process and it does work very well and actually saves a lot of time. And when the fillet cures, the wing is effectively one with the fuselage. It’s hard to explain but hopefully you get what I mean.
Rich
oh ok i was painting before gluing because this one guy said its easier to just paint before gluing. The problem with gluing before painting is its hard to tape everything up before spray painting it. My A-10A took me a month to tape it just to paint one of the three colors. The glue that i use is the testors tube glue cement thingy , I put a small amount on wax paper and take a toothpick rub it in the stuff then rub it on the parts. I’m fine with the small parts (you cant even see the glue) its just the big parts that get me. I got a 1/48 scale B-52 for Christmas and i want to learn as much as possible before starting on it (I’m thinking I’m going to have to wait like 5 years on that one [:(] ). so thanks for the tips and stuff.
sorry i mean 1/72 scale B-52
Yeah, on something like the B-52 I would use a liquid on the fuselage and wings… Testors #3502 in the bottle. Thin as water. works wonders. Flows right down the seam of the two parts you are joining together. I use it because the first 2 ingredients on it’s list is acetates and MEK. I’m a poor guy and can’t afford Tenax and such
Just forget the brush in the cap. Use a white Testors brush. Once you get used to using liquids you’ll find your tube cement hardly touched.
HAPPY NEW YEAR!!![t$t]
It is easier to paint some things like landing gear struts and such before assembly. Usually anything that will be difficult to neatly paint after assembly. You just have to make sure that you do not paint any surface which will be glued. I remember the tube Testors. Even the Model Masters is a huge improvement in terms of set time, amount needed and precision application. Liquids are great for a lot of jobs but the mid thickness non CA glues like the Model Master Testors Black are the best for general application. A lt of the thin glues will evaporate before you can get a large part like the huge wings on that B52 beast together. I have one of those kits sitting on my big bombers shelf. Along with the B36, B58, B17F, B17G, B24 and B25. I keep my B47 in the closet. lol.
I use Tamiya liquid cement on all my models and of course CA for those requiring PEs. I use the regular liguid cement and the very thin liquid cement (green label). I never had problems with them. Smudges can be caused by the careless handling of the model after cementing. Sometimes cement can seeped thru the joints so avoid holding them in the the joints. I like to use the very thin Tamiya cement because I can join the parts together and just let the cement run between the joints. If the cement spill over to other surfaces I just let it dry. It will not leave any mark when painted over. Also, let the cement dry until hard before painting over. Fumes from the partially dried joints can affect your paint.