I hope you are all very well. I’m starting my Panzer III GB soon and am just trying to decide what scheme/markings to go with - perhaps you can help.
There are three options which are Tunisia '43, Kursk Summer '43 and Leningrad Winter '42-'43.
I’m not going with the Tunisia build as my main interest lies in the European theatre of war so obviously it boils down to the two Russian options.
Ideally I’d love to build the Leningrad version which is shown on the box art:
wbill built the Dragon version of this and you can see his amazing work on the link to his site in his signature. He did this very same scheme with the same markings and it looks great. His kit came supplied with Winterketten tracks - will I need to get hold of these Winterketten tracks to do a realistic winter Panzer III like Bill did?
As you can see this tank was base coated Panzer Grey with whitewash over the top in sectioned areas - not an all over ‘full’ whitewash - this looks really good imo.
This brings me onto the Panzer Grey basecoat? I’ve searched and although it doesn’t refer directly to the Panzer III Ausf. N I’m given the impression that the Panzer Grey had been phased out by then to be replaced by Dunkelgelb. Can someone clarify exactly how this works please as it has me confused. I’m DEFINATELY NOT questioning the accuracy of Dragon, Tamiya and definately not Bill [;)] but I’m wondering how this grey basecoat was around in Winter '43. Obviously it was, but like I say, it just has me a bit confused! Is it because it’s an earlier Panzer III N i.e 1942-1943 instead of just 1943?
Righto, the second possible scheme is the Kursk Summer '43 cammo. It’s a DY basecoat with thin, random stripes of Dark Green and Red/Brown. I like this scheme but would much prefer the Winter scheme (if I can pull it off) as I find my freehand AB cammo can be pretty rubbish and the Winter scheme just looks really cool [H]
So, I’m just after any feedback you guys can give. Bills site has been very helpful but I would just like to know how to do this winter build. Will Winterketten realistically be required or is that optional?
Also, the winter build features smoke grenade launchers. I always like to add a bit of wiring to the front headlights along the fenders so do these launchers need visible wiring going to them?
Sounds good Ben,I probably won’t be able to start right away,I have another campaign involving a Dragon Jagdpanther early w/molded zimm which I must finish.I will look foward to following everybody and eventually getting started,but it is a long campaign and I know I will get done.
I would presume the description “Winter 1942-43” to mean the winter of that period , ie late '42-early '43, which would make Panzergrau appropriate, remembering that Dunkelgelb became the standard in Feb '43.
That’s what I thought Phil but I wanted one of you guys to confirm this for me!
It’s definately going to make for one good GB Anthony! I’ve finished my StuG and all I have left in my stash is the superb Dragon Sherman Hybrid IC Firefly - I could make a start on that but I’m not keen on half finished builds and want that Firefly to be a real ‘special’ one! I’ve got the Marder III but I’m struggling with that and just can’t get into it.
So, I’m doing as much research as I can and am twiddling my thumbs waiting for the GB to start! A friend of mine in Austria is painting one of his great figures for me - it’s going to go on the base with my StuG but I don’t want to start adding scenery and the actual StuG until I have the figure as I’m not sure how I want the layout yet. I was hoping to have had the figure by now to kill some time whilst I made my base but he’s doing me a great favour so I can’t moan! It shouldn’t be long and the GB start date is - 20 days away! [:'(]
If anyone has thoughts on the Winterketten tracks I’d love to hear them!
I know i am not in that GB, but i will hope to keep an eye on this build. I have the same kit and did consider the same scheme as you, but have decided i will do the Afrika version whne i get round to it.
Just to confirm, yes Pz Grey is good for that scheme. As mentioned, the yellow schemes came in around Feb 43, and of course vehciles issued to units before then would either still be grey or painted in the field with yellow. I am not sure if you know this, but the vehicle you are doing is from a Tiger battalion. Dragon have released a couple of initial Tiger I’s from the same unit, one of which has a similar scheme to your kit.
As for the Winter tracks, i am not sure if they are essential, but they would look nice. I think fruil do those tracks.
I’m really looking forward to this GB, it’s a shame you aren’t in it matey! Only TWENTY days to go (grumble)!
I felt that the Kusk Summer Scheme would be the way to go but I do find these freehand schemes (lines and dots) difficult to get to look realistic. Still, it’s my back-up colour scheme!
I’ve printed off Bill Plunks blog from when he built the Dragon version of this kit. I used the blog he put on his own website which has helped me loads of times when looking at his galleries and blogs on there.
I thought it was INGENIOUS how he managed to get the witewash to work effectively. A grey basecoat with blocky patches of flat white. All he did was aply a light grey wash/drybrush over the white areas to give the the impression of the grey basecoat showing through then all he did was apply a flat white wash over the basecoat grey areas - it looks great and I hope I can make it work. The only difference is Bill uses Enamels for his painting and I use Acrylics for mine.
I was going to keep it simple and OOB but now I have decided to buy Panzer III Friul Winterketten [H] (only £28 for these from Steve who now runs Armour Models (07980 391464). Any purchase over £20 is exempt from a postage charge. I’ve just called him and he has confirmed that he has them on the shelf!
I’m also going to replace the MG34 Bow Machine Gun with a Brass one. I have about three RB Models MG34 barrels and as the Tamiya barell is flat ended and would need carefully drilling I thought some brass would look good!
The kit itself comes with PE grills and a rifled turned Aluminium barrel so no other AM stuff needed really.
This GB runs for a year so I’m sure you could drop in anytime if you sent Andy a pm?
I would like to take part in this GB, especuially after the Pz IV GB a while back. But time just isn’t on my side at the moment. And i think the 4 kits i have that would fit into this are being built anyway, so i will be watching.
I have yet to do a winter white wash, but got an armour and aircrfat kit in the stash that will be getting the treatment. But a bit nervous about doing it. Now i am happy with doing washes that my next technique to overcome.
I haven’t got anything from armour models since the new guy took over. I have been getting my Fruils from hannats or Historex whenever i do an order for other things. But next time i need an armourscale barrel, i will be paying him a visit.
As well as Fruil tracks i got a Voyager PE set for my IIIN, and i haven’t tried those RB barrel tips but i have use dthe Aber ones, and they are a very nice touch. And knowing the stuff RB/Armourscale produce, they will look very nice.
Hi, Ben, I am not near any reference but the question you asked about Panzer Grey, well I think that 42 into early 43 would give you a field grey base colour and then after feb '43 the dunky starts to be phased in.
If I’m wrong I apoligise in advance but I have reservations about Panzer grey in that time frame.
I’ll be in the build with you so I’m looking forward to working along side you with this one.
Pz III N production was done in two batches. The first batch was done in late '42 and the Leningrad sPzAbt 502 #116 was one of those, hence the Pz Gray scheme. As for the Winterketten, the existing photo of #116 in the whitewash scheme shows it outfitted with regular tracks. DML chose this particular vehicle to “debut” its Magic track Winterketten and when I built mine, I went along with their “artistic license” since I was also building it as a review sample but for accuracy sake I would have replaced them. Link to photo is posted for discussion purposes only (disclaimer, the photo also shows the body of what is most likely a dead crew member and/or infantryman killed in action)
On the question of replacing the hull MG, make sure you get the right barrel as the MG34 used in the N had an armored sleeve and wasn’t the normal perforated cooling-jacket type.
Yep, it’s a field-mod stowage rack. Pretty common sight on Pz IIIs on the Eastern Front. Looks to be more sophisticated than most racks in terms of the construction/materials used.
