German Paint Colors?

I am starting to build some German WWII Armor models. At this point, I am starting on a Sd.Kfz.251/7 Ausf.C “Pioneerpanzerwagen” German Half-Track. This armor vehicle will be modeled as it appeared in the German operation “Barbarossa” of 1941 (German initial invasion of Russia). This means that it will be the basic german gray that was being used at the time.

I currently have Model Master Enamel paint in “P.Schwarzgrau '39-'43”, and “Schwarzgrau RLM 66”. I also have Model Master Enamel paint in “German Uniform Feldgrau”. I am not up on my German, so I thought I better check here at the forums before I proceed. Here are my questions:

  1. Could either of the Schwarzgrau paints mentioned above be used to paint my Sd.Kfz. 251/7 in the “Barbarossa” color scheme? If not, what color should I try to get?

  2. Is the MM Enamel “German Uniform Feldgrau” an accurate color for german uniforms of WWII? If not, what color would be?

  3. What other subjects could accurately be modeled using either of the Schwarzgrau colors mentioned above? What other projects are these two paint colors good for? I am interesting in doing some Panzers in the future in a basic gray color scheme before I move on to camo paint jobs.

This will be my first WWII German Armor projects, so I would appreciate any help you can give me. Thanks.

RLM 66 is actually a Luftwaffe colour, used for cockpit interiors. I’m not sure how it compares to the shade used by the army for their vehicles.

While I’m not familiar with the brand of paint you’re using, you should be OK with the Feldgrau for the uniforms as these varied in shade quite a bit due to wear and washing etc.

The Feldgrau (Field Gray) is correct for German uniforms (Tamiya XF-65 is the same). When you mention “P.Schwartzgrau '39-'43” (Panzer Black Gray), I’m assuming that the “P” is referring to the word Panzer which would be Testors MM #TS2094, which is correct for German armor and field equipment like jeeps and half-tracks. The Tamiya equivalent would be XF-63. Just remember that there are always variations of shades and tints, therefore the “exact color” doesn’t truly exist.

Before 1939, German military equipment was painted in cloud patterns of 1/3 dark brown and 2/3 dark gray. From '39 to early '43, it switched to dark gray or dunkelgrau (your Panzer Black Gray). After early '43, dunkelgelb (Dark Yellow) superceded the dunkelgrau.

Given this your paint is applicable for any equipment that would have left the factories in the timeframe I cited.

The actual shade of dunkelgrau was very close to black. However in modelling, you may want to take into account “scale effect” the lightening of objects far away due to atmospheric haze. A 1/35 model 12 inches from you is supposed to represent something at least 35 feet away. It’s color intensity is lessened as your mind registers it. Therefore, many modellers lighten their projects depending on the scale to mimic this effect – to trick the mind into seeing what “looks right”.

Like Vartan, I wouldn’t get too stuck on the amount of shade or tint given the accumulation of dust on EVERYTHING.

In another vein however, I wouldn’t necessarily assume that there was wide variation on the factory issued paints. I’m stepping out on thin ice here I know. In regards to dark yellow at least, I’m inclined to believe there was little if any variation of the factory specs. Listening to restorers, collectors and historians, I recall one discussion where several pristine wartime items (by pristine I mean, never unboxed, never handled, practically mint). They were items such as a telescope tripod, the inside of a sealed spare 2cm barrel box, an unopened Notek blackout lamp and other misc equipment that somehow have weren’t issued and kept in near-mint conditions. These came from a variety of factories and were produced throughout the '43-'45 period. The restorers/collectors/historians concluded that there was NO discernable variation in the paint hue. Their logical conlcusion was that whatever controls for paint uniformity were widely held. Also German dunkelgelb is made from a base pigment of some sort metal oxide (I don’t remember which). This meant that, unlike synthetically formed pigments, it was already in its basic color and therefore would not react to bleaching by the sun. (Thomas Jentz seminar, AMPS Nationals '02)

For all that, what does that mean for modellers? Well, like I said, dust and weathering would affect everythhing so even if the theory that most likely every batch of dunkelgelb matched almost perfectly, it wouldn’t matter much in our attempts to model 1/35 scale replicas. Weathering, paint streaks, un-uniform paint application (thin spraying would have red primer show thru) would all affect our models.

So if your experience with mis-matched batches of paints counters this and you think my story sounds ridiculous. OK. That’s fine. It doesn’t affect the ultimate painting of our little plastic toys anyways.

My two and a half cents,
Roy

This thread helps me also. Thanks for bringing it up Hocking.

Thanks for all the help on this subject. Very imformative, and it will definitely help me model future German subjects that I already have planned. At this point, I will stick to painting my Sd.Kfz. 251/7 in the Panzer Schwarzgrau color (it even says '39-'43 right on the bottle) and be pretty comfortable about keeping everything realistic. I will also paint the German soldiers with the Feldgrau paint I have. I noticed that Testors color chart pretty much has German paint colors that match up with what you were explaining about how German color schemes changed over the years of WWII. The years matched and everything.

I see what you are talking about when you say how colors on scale models may not match up closely with actual colors of the models subect even when you use the appropriate color. I painted the lower hull-half of my Type VII U-Boat in the appropriate Dunkelgrau 2 color and it looks more black than dark-gray. I probably should have gone with something a little more lighter to give it a more realistic look even when I was using a less-realistic color.

Thanks again everybody.