Hello all,
Have some questions on some Dragon and DML German armor kits.
First. Does the Dragon Jagdtiger kit # 6050, need to be built with zimmerit to be accurate? Any Jagdtigers see service without it?
Second.
What are the differences between the Dragon Panther F #9008 and DML’s Panther II #6027?
I thought the Panther F and Panther II were basically the same vehicle, just different names.
Also, in a review by AMPS, they say that the Panther II (#6027) was reissued (as a corrected version) as kit #6027x. What was “corrected”?
Any and all help will be appreciated very much. Thanks to all for taking a look.
Joe[:D]
On one hand I’d like to hear what was ‘corrected’ in kit # 6027x, since the Panther II never saw production, only two prototypes built. On the other hand I know there has been some ‘suggestions’ about the Dragon kit, #6027, having some errors on the rear deck, engine grills; and some questions about the accuracy of the turret shape.
HTH
Glenn
Hi Glenn,
Well, I guess we’re both in the same boat. I thought both kits were based on projections of what would be next. If that was the case, what did need to be corrected?
Thanks for the info on the rear deck and such. Hopefully, alittle bit of help here and a little there and the picture will begin to clear up.
Joe
The only difference between the Panther F and the Panther ll ( I’m just talking about the kit differences!) is the main gun and the suspension. The Panther F wil retain the late “G” steel roadwheels, sprocket and idler, and will take the late G track.
Both kits have the Schmalturm, however, the F Panther is armed with the 7.5cm, and the Panther ll with the L71 8.8cm (both without muzzle breaks). The Panther ll retains the Tiger ll suspension, (7 roadrams per side), with the 18 tooth sprocket and Tiger ll style idler. The service track for the Panther ll is the same as the transportation track for the Tiger ll.
The correction had to do with the Panther ll suspension and the spacing between # 5 qnd 6 roadarm.
Now, technically the Panther ll upper hull is still incorrect as Dragon has used the same Panther G mold for the upper hull. The upper hull does not reflect the increased armor thickness for the front glacis and retains other details from the Panther G upper hull. Back deck details and pioneer tools etc. See the Panther ll below:
Regards,
Steve
Hi Steve,
Thanks. So there are diffences in the kits. Can a credible Panther F be built as is from the box?
On the Panther II, is the discrepency on the uncorrected version a big deal? How drastic are the changes in the hull from the G to the prosed Panther II? If you would be so kind as to provide a bit more help, it would be appreciated.
Thanks,
Joe
Joe,
I wish I knew as to the “credibility” of the F Panther as represented. I only have one really good source for Panther F info and that is the Osprey “Panther Variants '42-'45”.
There is only one photo of the Panther F prototype, plus and artist rendition of the F painted in overall OD. The literature suggests that the F would use the late G hull, so I guess we have to assume that the kit is close.
As to the Panther ll, the very early release without the correction would be virtually undetectable to the untrained eye, so make your own choice. The mold makers obviously have used the Ft. Knox Panther ll hull, so maybe if you could search the museum website or ask for detailed pics of that tank you could get an idea. I just didn’t worry about it and built that Panther ll out of the box. I get a lot of positive comments on it, and it will soon be on display at HobbyLand in Ft. Wayne Indiana.
There are issues with the Panther ll kit. For instance, the kit provides a travel lock for the main gun, but it will not work with the 8.8 weapon, and is clearly the part for the Panther G. You’ll notice on my build there is no travel lock. The kit provides NO interior hatch details, unlike subsequent DML Panther releases. I had to add vision blocks from the spares box, as none are included. On my kit, the roadwheel hubs were incompletely molded and would not seat correctly on the road arm axles. I had to drill each one out individually. Hope this helps you on your project…
Steve
Steve
To my knowledge (little at that) no Jagdtigers had zimmerit, or perhaps unconvincingly, I’ve never seen any. They came out late 44, and zimmerit stopped in Sept. of 44. If you don’t want it, you should be in good shape.
Well atleast a few of the very early Jagdtigers had zimmerit. As Tigerman said, the application of zimmerit stopped on Sept. 9th 1944, how many Jagdtigers there were produced before this date is not known to me, be I remember hearing the number 11 but that is a bit uncertain … but atleast the number is very small.
Here is a picture of the rear of one the very early Kingtigers, but next to it you have an early Jagdtiger, it has zimmerit applied even on the sideskirts up to the first set of spare track links.
Didn’t I read somewhere that since these were built on refurbished tank hulls, that one would see zimmerit left on the lower hull on these???
Steve
Thanks for the responses.
Steve,
Yes, your info has been a great help. Don’t presently have the kits, but wanted to get some input before I picked them up.
tigerman / TMN1,
Looks like I’m good to go on the kit (which I don’t have) without zimmerit.
Thanks to all.
Joe
All but 1 Porche Jagdtigers had Zimmerit, it was only the bottom half (as high as a man could reach)
im not sure if any of the Henshall Jagtigers had Zim
The Panther 2 was designed to be used with a 75mm gun, production started on the Prototypes on 29 April 1943 and canceled on 3 June 1943
only 1 experimental chassis was compleated
The Panther Ausf F was designed from Spring 1944, there were 2 turret designs
the chassis is similar to the Ausf G but with a thicker hull roof armour extending back to the turret race and the drivers and radio hatches slided to the side between guides
the Schmalturms were to be fitted to Panthers by june 1945 (photos of an assembly line show 3 panther Ausf F hulls mixed with Ausf Gs
The 88mm gun was ordered to be fitted by Hitler to the Ausf F chassis in a meeting on 23 jan 1945,
there was a wooden mock up of the Schmalturm with a 88mm gun found in the Daimler-Benz assembly plant in August 1945
there alot more info in
“Germanys Panther tank the quest for combat supremacy - Thomas L Jentz”
Jon, you’re probably right. There were only a handful of the Porsche versions built, unlike some 50 or so of the King Tiger built.
Steve they were a lengthened King Tiger hull if I’m correct, so I don’t think they were conversions. Of course I may as usual, be wrong. Someone (Jon) might have a better answer.
your right the hulls were lengthened. they were new built hulls not converted kingtigers
the Porsche versions had different suspention (the one in TMN1s photo is now at Bovington, so is the Kingtiger in the photo)
Some porche Jadgtigers had zimmerit , none of the henschell versions did to my knowledge .