Hey all, It’s been many months since I’ve built, but I just couldn’t resist the temptation to dive into Trumpeter’s 1/350 San Francisco (1942).
It’s my 2nd ship project, and my 1st ship had some very nice molded in anchor chains. However, this kit does not. It’s a beautiful kit, but the anchor chains stink.
A look through the online hobby suppliers didn’t give results for products using the keyword “anchor chain.” Then it occured to me that anchor chains could come from model railroad or other such sources.
However, is there anything I should look for to assure scale and accuracy. I did some searching and scanning of previous posts, but I have to ask. What do you guys recommend for 1/350 anchor chains?
My favorite chains had been for HO scale model railroads made by Campbell until I found these by Tiger Models for 1:35 scale armor. In addition to the Very Fine, there is a Fine size which is good for 1:350 cruiser and larger-sized projects.
Recently I’ve seen a method in David Griffith’s new book ‘Ship Models from Kits’ where he braids fine copper wire (yes braid like girls pigtails – except when sailors do it its called a sinnet). The end result when painted & drybrushed is amazing. A comparison photo with a length of railroad chain shows just how grossly oversize the chain is.
Anchor chains are generally “studded” - that is , they have a strengthening bar across each link. You are unlikely to get anything like that from a railway supplier. Don’t know about the US, but over this side of the pond there are very few suppliers of studded chain in such small scales. You could try Steba, in Germany.
I guess the chain links on the San Francisco would be about 2 feet? In 1/350 that would equate to about 15 links to the inch, or about 1.7mm per link.
Hey ridleusmc !!! This isn,t that hard to help you on . When I build 1/350 ships I use “n” scale model railroad chain . As one reply said some chain has a bar across the link . I don,t remember anything like that on the ships I was on … tankerbuilder
It seems too big. I estimated that the links are about 18-20 inches for the Iowa class battleship. My latest visit was the USS Wisconsin at Norfolk, VA in May this years. I have not seen a heavy cruiser in the USS San Francisco (New Orleans-class) class, but I doubt that it would use a heavier chain (2-ft?) than the BB ships. All the New Orleans-class heavy cruiser were either lost during WW-II or scrapped after the war.
I use 18 to 20 links per inch for the battleship in 1:350 scale. It is ok to overscale the anchor links to make it more visible if so desired.
I’m with subfixer. I can’t claim to have lived my life surrounded by anchor chains, but of the fair number I’ve seen (excluding pre-twentieth-century ones) virtually all have been studded.
The studs, incidentally, don’t contribute anything to the strength of the chain. (The stud generally is slightly smaller in cross-section than the material used for the link itself. When stress comes on the chain, none of it comes on the stud.) The purpose of the stud is to help prevent the chain from getting kinked up in the chain locker. You’ll rarely, if ever, see stud-link chain used in any other application than for anchor chains. The chain bowsprit rigging of nineteenth- and early-twentieth-century ships like the Cutty Sark, for instance, was normally made of ordinary, oval-link chain.
In his books on sailing ship modeling the late Harold Underhill described a method for making stud-link chain. (He had, as he freely admitted, a bit of an obsession with making every part of his models himself.) He started out by bending a bunch of pieces of brass wire into tight S shapes, then hooked them together and laid the resulting “chain” on an asbestos block. Then he’d silver-solder the gaps in the S shapes together. The photos of Underhill’s work make it clear that his chain looked pretty daggone good. But he, of course, was working on relatively large scales - generally 1’8" = 1’.
To be honest, I can’t recall ever having seen a set of anchor chains on a 1/350 or 1/700 model that I found really convincing. The molded-in ones provided by the kit manufacturers have obvious drawbacks (though the better ones do depict the studs). I’ve tried the photo-etched metal ones from Gold Medal Models; they always look to me like strips of thin metal with holes in them (which is what they are). Fine, unstudded chain is probably ok for the relatively small stuff on such ships as destroyers, in which the studs probably wouldn’t be visible to a post-middle-aged set of eyes like mine anyway. But on 1/700 battleships, and 1/350 subjects of all sorts, it seems to me that unstudded metal chain isn’t really much of an improvement over the molded-in versions.
I’ve heard that, with patience, it’s possible to find stud-link chain at some jewelry dealers. I confess I’ve never really had occasion to look for it - and I’m inclined to doubt that a jeweler would carry it in sizes small enough for 1/350 models. I don’t really have a solution to the problem.
This is a welcome discussion, for me. I’ve generally shaved off anchor chains molded to decks, “just because”. However there are no suitable substitutes that I’ve ever found now that I think about it, and I’ve bought more than a few cheap necklaces in Clare’s, Michaels etc. and wondered why they were wrong.
The link that RickF provided above shows some gold and silver chain with some (at the bottom) that are studded. I don’t know if you would want to use precious metals on a model (photoetch ain’t cheap for that matter) but I would if it was the correct size.
I think that it refers to the colour rather than the material - look at the prices. Silver is more expensive than gold, and nether is much more expensive than the other chains on the page.
You’ve certainly enlightened me quite a bit, and I thank you for sharing your ideas. I’m going to brows around the armor and train sections of my LHS to see what’s best. There is a Michael’s on the way back, so that may help. Studded chain on the internet is also worth a look. Just to give everybody an idea of what I want to replace. Here’s a picture of the kit part (pardon the blur, my camera has “automatic” settings).
I’m thinking that a solution might be to get a casting in resin of linked chain on the deck. After all it’s from the capstan forward to the deck hawse hole that matters, right? I think that all of the times I’ve tried jewelry chain look no better than the kit.
Done that. Build a clay dam around the forward deck and pour a RTV mold. When it hardens remove the mold and pour resin to make copies. I made a copy of the chains, capstan, & hawse openings from the Tamiya Fletcher and replaced the ones on the Trump Sullivans.
This is a scan of a couple of pictures from David Griffith’s book showing the plaited wire method.
The upper one shows the basic weave method using fine copper wire from a headset magnet coil. The lower compares the woven wire chain with a commercially available railroad chain. The subject is the 1:700 scale Tamiya Indianapolis
The price does not say precious metal and seems to be reasonable for a 1 meter length. But the problem of order small items from Europe is the cost of shipping. It is expensive and the shipping is slow. Can someone provide a supply source of the studded chain in the US?
Hello Jtilley ! Well now here,s a subject we can get anchored in !!! Hee,Hee . J - I have bought chain small enough to be scale correct in 1/200 and 1/350 , but ,I have not been able to get the studded chain . It is available in silver but I could buy three ships for what one foot of chain would cost . I would rather be a little innaccurate than not have chain at all . I have never been gigged for chain problems at I.P.M.S. meets as they are aware of that particuler problem that arises where chain is needed . I know that is not purity of scale ,but, it,s supposed to be a fun hobby ,right??? Let,s not get overly technical in the hobby . I don,t want to make someone give up .I have built stuff that frightened fellow modelers with the accuracy and they wouldn,t build ships any more . I had to talk them into coming back into the fold , reminding them ,thats why I seldom compete ,but, display only .I do consider it a labor of love but, its also a hobby . I try not to cross the line to much …TANKERBUILDER
Hey there tankerbuilder, how about posting some pictures of your “frightening” models. They really must be something if they can scare people right out of the hobby!
Regarding Bondoman’s idea (i.e. - if I understand it correctly - duplicating molded-in chain on the deck of a good kit to replace what’s on a not-so-good kit):
If I remember correctly, at least one of the old Skywave 1/700 “weapons sets” (some of which are now being sold by Tamiya) included strips of “stud link” chain that were molded integrally with little slabs of styrene. The idea was that the modeler would carefully slice the “chain” off the slab and glue it to the deck of the model. That strikes me as a pretty ingenious idea - not completely convincing, of course, but if done carefully it probably would look at least as good as any of the usual alternatives.
If you want seriously insane 1/700 anchor chains … all of the Loose Cannon Productions PE frets (at least the ones I’ve ordered) have a section of studded anchor chain - it consists of oval links and and equal number of half links with a stud going through the center of them. Apparently you’re supposed to glue two “halves” of the splint links together with each oval link to get three-dimensional anchor chain. It’s pointed out in the photo below. Suffice to say, in 1/700, I’m content with the “flat look”!
