leave your polotics and shoes outside this thread please iv just had new carpets ;D
so if i was looking for an 80s ish light(ish) multirole fighter how do these stack up against each other?
Hard to answer this without some parameters… are you asking about a straight-up stats comparison, or something more theoretical?
if you were looking for a light ish capable fighter bomber in the mid 80s what would you look at?
grippen would be good but it wasnt around then
viggen isnt really multirole and is too big
hawk and f5 are too small
tornado isnt multirole
heres my atlantian list 70s-2000s so far
navy
intercptor/fighter bomber f14 with f14 dropping back to interceptor/fleet defender role in the 00s with the russian su35 taking over the fighter role
tsr2 for dedicated strike and recon
supervulcan for heavy bombing
victor tankers
(operating from the super habakuk class 3500 ft carriers)
af
interceptor the lightning f8 efq
fighter/bomber f15e to be replaced with the f23 (if/when i can get a 72 scale kit!)
light fighter/bomber f16 or mig29 (or maybe another??)
strike/recon tsr2
heavy bomber vulcans superceeded by supervulcans and valkyries
tanker victors
trainers
f5s for basic fast jet training and a fair few prototypes (got a few lined up wink.gif )
jaguars for low level strike trainers (perfectly suited to training tsr2 crews )
Depends. Both the F-16 and MiG-29 have been through several major variant changes (especially the -16), so first, which variant?
Second, what’s the scenario? Are we talking a BVR missile duel where it’s more often than not first-look, first-kill? Are we talking something closer in with the shorty missiles like the Sidewinder?
realistic roles ie what are both used for in the real world
i have the f15 is the main multirole fighter (to be replaced by the f23 if i can find a 72 scale kit)
The only correct answer to this question is “Su-30MK”.[;)]
haha iv got the su 35 sea flanker replacing tomcats in the main fighter/bomber for the navy
theyr waaaaay to big for the f16 role lol
Too big to fly fast and fight??
no its an f15 replacement not f16
i already have that type sorted the su is too capable
the us use the f15 and f16 in different ways this is what im looking for and the only 2 vlable things i can think of are the f16 and mig 29
f18 is an option but its just too fugly for me lol
F-23? You mean the YF-23 that got knocked out by the YF-22?
Honestly I don’t see anything filling the F-15E’s multirole role for years. The F-22 as a strike aircraft? That’s rich.
As for the F-16/MiG-29, did some reading. The Germans had some experience with both MiG-29s and western fighters. Basically:
In a close-in knife fight, the MiG-29 is a match or more for Western fighters (including the F-16).
BUT…its radar systems are a generation behind the APG-66 (and -68, etc). Its sensor package isn’t as advanced and it lacks air-to-air refueling capabilities which limits operational flexibility.
For those reasons, I’d go with the Viper.
yeh that f23 (this is whif land so nothing to stop it taking over from the strike eagle)
so close up viper and fulcrum are even but viper has better avionics?
+1 for the viper then
what were they like in the strike role?
Well, they were both designed for the fighter role, but the F-16 has been far more actively enhanced for the fighter-bomber role (again the more advanced radar, multi-target tracking etc being key). In addition to the radar system, the F-16 can carry the LANTIRN pod for low-altitude navigation and IR targeting, and can support GPS-guided munitions.
Everything I’ve read indicates that the F-16’s shift to multirole was an evolution, but a committed one. The MiG-29’s strike capabilities, at least from the info I’m finding, seem tacked on and half-hearted.
That said, there’s a lot to be said for the MiG-29’s two engines and the survivability that brings at low altitudes. 'coure, the F/A-18 also has two engines…
They are so close as to be an even match up, where the pilot skill and support such as GCI and/or AWACS will make a the critical differences. The only time that they have engaged in real word combat in 1999 over Serbia the F-16 won due to superior BVR weaponry (AMRRAM) and AWACS assist. It did not help matters that the Serbian MiGs had been degraded due to embargo issues preventing their upkeep to fully operational status (they were not) and their Air Defense system was “hunkered down” to ride out the NATO air attacks and not lighting up their radars to be killed.
f16 xl would be PERFECT for what i want 
just got to find 1 in 72 scale now lol
I like the Mitsubishi F-2 better than the F-16XL if we’re talking continued development. Bigger wing area than the regular F-16, less swept wing angle, awesome blue/blue scheme:
good shout il go look for kits
is the f2 basically a refined f16?
can only find a very expensive hasegawa kit in 72 scale 
The F-2 was based on the F-16 Agile Falcon proposal…25% bigger wing area, yadda yadda…
yeh just read up on that and stumbled onto the f20 which i knew about but forgot completely lol i might end up with an f20 instead