Semper fi
How do you think the F-15E or C would fare against the Fulcrum?
Does the Eagle have more power than the Mig 29?
Mike
If we allow F-18’s (especially E/F) stand-off capabilities (which I think we should) then the F-18 would have the edge. But I do agree that for close-in engagement, the Fulcrum is a very dangerous adversary.
The way I understand it (correct me please if I am mistaken) the US Air Force are giving much priority on BVR capabilities of their Fighter so it would be unfair for us to gauge them based mainly on their “close-in” capabilities.
Dwight -
Basic theory, is if you get yourself into a knife fight (dog fight), either you made a mistake, or the ROE are really nasty. BVR kills afre generally perferable, but missiles are no were near 100%. Still, the NAVY/AF pilots do quite a bit of close-in training, for several reasons, not the least of which is healthy competition, but it does hone piloting skills, develop new ones, and if you do find yourself it that situation, you really want to be ready.
MikeV -
As far as comparing power, it’s really a combination of thrust:weight ratios, sustained/instaneous turn rate and radii. You can find info on US jet here:
http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ac/index.html
and on they also have info on the MiG
http://www.fas.org/nuke/guide/russia/airdef/mig-29.htm
Archer out.
I recently checked out a SU-27 up close. I spoke with one of their pilots about the it and the MiG-29. He told me at his base that they have mothballed their 29s and use the SU-27s only. He also could not understand why all American ask about the MiGs when the SU-27 is the better of the two aircraft.
I talked with a pilot who flew the MIG-29 and SU-27 for the USAF as a test pilot when stationed at Edwards AFB. We had a long talk about their capability, a lot of it off the record. It breaks down to this.
F-16 VS MIG-29. Depends on pilot experience. Basicely and even fight.
F-15 VS MIG-29. F-15 all the way.
F-18 VS MIG-29. MIG-29 has advantage in close in fighting. It is faster, can zoom better but can not turn initially with the F-18, but can substain a tighter turn longer than the F-18.
F-16 VS SU-27. F-16 can turn faster and maintain a tighter turn longer. It is outclassed in all other areas.
F-15 VS SU-27. F-15 has first look, first shoot capability. Kill him when you get the first chance because once you close in to close range, the SU-27 has the advantage.
F-18 VS SU-27. SU-27 all the way.
This is with the F-15C, F-16C, and F-18C against the early MIG-29’s obtained by the German AF. The SU-27 was a Russian model loaned to the USAF for test and evaluation in Russia.
The Colonel (SU-27 pilot) I was speaking with through a translater said he had been in US with his plane and had flown “friendly” dogfights against F-15s and won every time. I always thought pilots liked to boast but you never know. Also since it was only “play” I wonder if the were only setting up for gun kilss …
berney -
Careful when you say F-18; the E/F models have enough fight differences compared to the A-D flavors, to change equation. It still the pilot who understand the strong and weak points of his A/C and his opponents who has the best chance.
Archer out.
It all boils down to the pilot in the cockpit and knowing his enemy’s capability. The first pilot to get inside the other’s OODA Loop wins.
As said by almost every one else, it depends on the pilot. Ive seen F-18’s train against German Mig-29’s in Red Star?? exercises… any more times than those Navy Jocks would like to admit, they got waxed to a formidable plane in the hands of a skilled pilot. In fact the exercise I had the privalege of watching, the first few rounds went entirely to the Germans. It wasnt until the Navy guys had a chance to see how thier adersaries operated that they started to use the Germans Tactics and weaknesses of the Fuldrum to thier advantage. The whole purpose of the match ups I think. This being said, I dont think the Germans are smart enough to tip thier whole hand and demonstrate the full potential of the Mig even to a trusted ally. You always keep your best tricks for when you really need them[:D]
Here’s the way to beat every aircraft ever
put f-18 avionics into a su 27.
done. it would beat everything
Interesting thread. I’d loke to see more like this one. But let’s throw the new F-22
into the equation. The other plane would never know what hit it,
Pilot experience does play a lot into the action. I knew an F-4 pilot, Capt Larry (Scoop) Jackson, that when he strapped an F-4 on his back could do things the manufacturer never dreamed of. During TLP in Javer, he took on two F-15’s in air to air and beat them. To prove it wasn’t a fluke, he did it again the next day.
I have heard other pilots say that when Scoop got into an F-4, he became part of it. Back seaters have said he would plan his moves ahead of time and would actually tell you what move the other aircraft was going to make. He would sometimes make his plans three or four moves in advance. He said to win in combat, always know what your enemy is going to do, but never let him know what you are going to do.
Well I was talking to a Test Pilot from Edwards, he said he flew in the back seat of the SU-27 & MiG 29 two seaters and was imperssed with them, but then he said “if you want to turn on a dime at high speeds and dogfight it’ll be the Viper (Lawn Dart), if you want to Dominate the sky’s it’ll be the Fleagle ( or now the Raptor ), if you want to make it home then it’ll be the SU’s & MiG’s”, because they seem to be able to substain some heavy damages and get the Zipper Heads home to fight again, also the Russian planes seam to be more simple to maintain then the Western counterparts, they need no special tools just the basic hammer & chisles( just kidding but the real basic hand tools like wrenches & screwdrivers )
Were it me, just out of personal preference, I’d much rather sit in anything Russian than anything American. Well, except the Raptor, since that pretty much will be the standard for years to come.
here’s something some of you might not know the F-16 pilots have this tactic when flying against a more superior aircraft, they fly low so the radar has a very hard time tracking them or can’t track them and when they get within striking distance the pop up on them and hit them hard, I was talking to a Fleagle Driver yesterday and he was saying when they fly mock dogfights with the Darts they have this mosquito attitude you don’t know they are there until they are biting you, and he also said any plane in the right hands will be the winner hands down, he’s been beaten by a few Darts in his time and they always get them when they where not ready for the fight and this goes to the old addage most air to air kills are when the other guy isn’t looking, and it’s the pilots skills makes who is who in air to air
Given that most combat these days would occour over a long distance I would say the question to be asked would be which aircraft with an equally skilled pilot in each would be able to save themselves from being hit by a long range air to air missile using manovurability and counter measures