Elco PT Boats & Measure 13 - Turning to the 'wet' side

Modeling Subjects Ships
1

Hi Guys
I’ve just bought the Italeri 80" Elco PT 596 boat, which is a jewel.
Being primarily an armour modeller, & D-Day obsessive, I would like to build a RON 34 (PT 498-509) or RON 35 (PT 510-521) - English Channel Boat, but I have no idea what Measure 13 is!

Can anyone please direct me to a site/ref that covers this, preferably with refs to Vallejo paints?

I note from the PT 596 post that I will (probably) need some Depth Charges, (refs please?)

and Finally, I have no data on USN Uniforms or Colours for this period either, any pointers would be welcome!

Thanks in advance

2

Greetings Jon,

If John Snyder of White Ensign Models (in your back yard) doesn’t respond I would suggest reaching out to him. He can hook you up with measure 13. I would also expect Al Ross to pop in and provide some guidance. They are the source when it comes to PT’s and naval colors.

Good luck!

Dave

3

I’d be glad to help as well, if I can.
Garth

4

Measure 13:

http://www.shipcamouflage.com/measure_13.htm

All the Navy Camouflage measures are defined at this site.

Hope this helps.

Bruce

5

Ms13 is a scheme in which all vertical surfaces are painted Haze Gray (5-H) and all horizontal surfaces are painted Deck Blue (20-B). These colors are available from White Ensign Models (http://whiteensignmodels.com/) and as Dave and Bruce have mentioned, both John S. and the ship camo website will provide you with all kinds of good stuff.

Just to add a little “food for thought”:

There are photos of the RON 34 boats (English Channel) in the normal Measure 13, but also in a very dark scheme with much lighter deck furniture (ready-service lockers, etc.) with no two boats quite the same.

The English Channel ELCOs (PT 498-521) were usually more lightly armed and the 37mm was not always fitted, although contemporary news footage shows it fitted to 509, 515, 517, and 519 in place of the normal 20mm on the bow to port. There are also several photos of 513 with two 37mm on MK14 mounts.

Al Ross

6

Thanks Guys,
That’s very helpful!
I first got interested in boats from Dog Boats at War: Royal Navy MGBs and MTBs in Action, 1939-45 by Leonard Renolds, a facinating read, with lots on Joint ops with the Elcos’ in the Med
I have John Lambert’s Fairmile D book, & the Lambert/Ross Allied Coastal Forces of World War II: Vosper MTBs and US ELCOs v. 2 is available from Amazon UK, so I’ll start Saving for that!
Any good refs for Crew? not that Italeri included any crew, & the LCVP Crew are not that good.

7

If you have not seen this you might find it interesting.

http://members.cox.net/klcother/ptops01.htm

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thanks for your help so far…#

I’ve found Vallejo FS no refs from http://www.acrylicosvallejo.com/ (thanks guys)
re Measure 13 paint schemes, so now I need the FS numbers for Haze Grey & Deck Blue & i’ll be sorted…[;)]

9

Fed-Std numbers do not apply to pre-1950s US Navy paint colors. The colors do not even match up with the ANA system in place during WWII. If your goal is ‘accurate’ colors you cannot get there by Fed-Std. The Fed-Std system is not extentable. You cannot compare colors and say that a certain color match is two units lighter and one unit bluer than a standard color.

There are several websites which offer the webmaster’s opinions as to the closest match of the wartime naval colors to a modern system. But they are just opinions.

In acrylics Modelmaster Acryl II offers an accurate Haze Gray and Deck blue. They are based on the Snyder & Short paint color chips. PollyScale also makes these colors, but they are not as ‘correct’ as the ModelMaster.

If you choose to not go these routes your other choice may be to mix your own. Snyder & Short offer their paint color chip set for sale (see shipcamouflage.com). Obtain a set and use this to mix your own paints to this standard.

10

The only thing I would add to that is to lighten the colors for scale. To the best of my knowledge Snyder & Short paint chips and White Ensign Models paint are not scaled and it is left to the modeler to do that. Lightening the colors just a little will make your subject appear more real. This is typically done by adding a few drops of white to your paint. But depending on the color you may choose to add lighter shades of the subject color. In other words use a lighter green to soften up a much darker green.

Dave

11

Thanks for your guidance, guys…
After further research it turns out that Testors do acrylics… (thanks hobbylinc.com)
4228 Anti-fouling
4238 Haze Grey 5-H
4243 Deck Blue 20-B
erm… Having checked the Vallejo Refs, which list by number only… They are not [censored] listed!
Others have mentioned Model Master, but again I need MM Paint Numbers to compare with,
OR UK source for MM & Testors Acrylics,
again thanks in advance,
Jon

12

Jon

Go gack up the thread.

There is no Fed Std equivalent for these colors.

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Noticed some figures starting to show up at squadron.com, think they are by Warrior

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Thanks for heads up, guys, perhaps I should have been clearer… [:I]
The Testors numbers are the Testors REF for haze grey, etc…
But the numbers listed, 4228, etc, don’t appear on my ‘conversion list’ nor do the Model Master Numbers,
eg., Testors 4228 does not correspond to Vallejo xxx, so am stumped!
Due to postal regs, ordering paint from US to UK is a non-starter, so am looking for UK supplier, hannants don’t carry either range, so still looking!