Dragon 88mm Flak 36 is reviewed

Modeling Subjects Armor
21

Larry,

I’m not wanting Tamiya to leave the industry, nor do I want it to buckle, (that was someone else’s comment) but how else can you explain their current strategy of kit pricing and their sudden plunge into 1/48 armor? I hardly think that the ‘time was right’ for Tamiya to move into 1/48 scale instead of trying to competitive in 1/35. Truth is, Tamiya moved to 1/48 because there was no one else in that particular niche market that could compete with them. Tamiya has dozens of kits that SHOULD be re-tooled to today’s standards, but we’re not seeing any of that happening, are we? And although they might be the leader in the plastic model industry right now, Trumpeter and Dragon are on the fast track to bury them. That is obvious. If they were playing nicey-nice like the Japanese ship model companies did back in the 1970s, then we’d be seeing Dragon and Trumpeter releasing kits that didn’t conflict with Tamiya’s offerings.

As for having sales figures, yes, I have access to them…Model Retailer is just down the hall. But it doesn’t take a economist to figure it out. China, Korea and Taiwan are cheaper than Japan is. That’s pure fact. So…a kit that costs X in China costs what? X+20%, X+40%, X+50% in Japan? You have several choices…

Increase your retail price to keep your profit margin…higher prices, fewer sales. BAD for everyone (this is what we’re seeing right now).
Lower profit margin to lower retail prices…potentially more sales, but less profit. BAD for Mfg. good for us.
Move production to lower costs…lower costs, higher profit if prices stay level. No change for the consumer, good for the mfg.
Move production to lower costs…reduce profit margin. Cheaper kits, more sales, profit comes from quantity sales. GOOD for everyone.

What are we seeing happen with Tamiya? Why is their ‘Super Kit’ of the Tiger in excess of $100, when it’s a $50 model with some extra stuff? Dragon is providing all that in their kits for less than $40. Maybe it’s not including metal indy links, but the new Dragon Tiger I links (the bagged, pre-cut, no pin-mark variety) are just as nice.

Is the writing on the wall? Certainly is. Doesn’t take an industry expert to figure that out. How many new Tamiya kits in the last year? How many new Dragon, Trumpeter, AFV, and Academy kits in the last year? Pretty obvious if you ask me.

Jeff

22

Yes, I know.

They are? There have been numerous model manufacturers in the past, and there will be numerous model manufacturers in the future. I don’t see Tamiya going anywhere. I buy Dragon kits on occasion, but I buy more Tamiya kits, because I’d just assume get a flawless base kit and add what I want to buying a kit with lots of AM-type stuff right in the box which doesn’t fit together correctly.

No value judgment here, but I doubt I am alone in that. I know that there are people who see that ill-fitting part as a challenge, and God bless them. I mean that. But correcting a flawed kit is not my own personal idea of fun. I do it all the time, but because I do it doesn’t mean I dig it.

Anyway, that just goes to suggest that Tamiya will not collapse because people are buying Dragon and Trumpeter models. That’s why I asked if you had hard evidence that Tamiya was in decline. The upcoming Leclerc is to me a great example of just how much clout Tamiya still has in the business. Even with their vaunted new technology and all the goodies, Dragon is releasing the same old tired sausage-wagons that are guaranteed to sell, vehicles already represented by a million kits. Frankly, I haven’t said so in other posts because I don’t like to criticize what others like, but I couldn’t possibly care less about the new 3-in-1 kits. If one more Tiger I is released, I will scream. Tamiya on the other hand is releasing a real risk, but it is such a beauty that many people are drooling over it not even knowing what it is! They don’t have to stick to the grotesquely-overexposed Nazi behemoths to sell kits.

And as to 48th, I think that is a company being smart about an increasingly tight market, and pioneering new territory. I don’t see that as an act of desperation.

Hey, I’m another loyal Tamiya customer! I built four M1A2 kits recently, and saved the Tamiya for last, because I knew that after the first three I’d enjoy the Tamiya the most. And I certainly wasn’t disappointed. That’s the kind of enjoyment that keeps me in this hobby.

23

Unfortunately this is not quite correct, only the flak18 barrel and breech is provided to fit to the Flak36 carriage if you wish.

The Flak18 was very different with different crucifix base, different bogies and different fittings to the gun cradle as well as the barrel, so a Flak18 can’t be made from the Dragon kit, you will need the new AFV Club or resin Calibre35 kit for that.

Cheers
Terry A

24

Maybe the old gun was used sometimes on the new carriage? Like a hybrid?

25

Yes, the barrels were interchangable but this didn’t alter the designation of the gun, i.e. a Flak36 is still a Flak36 even if fitted with a Flak18 barrel due to most of the other details on the gun being different.

You would quite often see Flak36 barrels fitted to Flak18 carriages as the old barrels wore out which was the most common cross kitting.

Cheers
Terry A

26

Actually, Japan already outsources some production of its own products to China. The Sony Playstation2, for example, is manufactured in China. So I would think that Tamiya would have to start considering doing the same if they are to keep up with Dragon and Trumpeter.

While some may take pleasure in seeing Tamiya’s demise, I for one, would hate to see a quality model producer go under. Trumpeter and Dragon have raised the bar with the quality and extra’s in their products and we the consumer benefit from this competition.

Not to change the topic too much, but thanks to all who responded to my question regarding a suitable towing vehicle/model. I definetely want to build the 88 being towed by a H/T. can’t wait to find a good one!

27

Thanks for posting the link to the preview/review etc. I was wondering how this new line would go…To anyone who has the tamiya kit…they won’t be disappointed either…considering the price and the amount of quality and detail you get the tamiya kit is a nice build…

The Dragon seems to be a big step up in detailing…thus reflected in the higher price…I’d stay away from using the decals on the camo and airbrush a pattern instead…
The other detail parts like the metal bits look nice…

Tank

28

Exactly. For decades this kit has provided us an excellent kit of an important weapons system.

29

Jeff,

If I’m not mistaken, aren’t some of tamiya’s kits made in the Phillipines?

Tank

30

well said jeff thats just how it is[tup]

31

I’m getting the same impression…if you’re in the armor market…some of these newer kits from academy and dragon seem to be the way to go.

Tank

32

They’re all nice kits…I still have more Tamiya kits in my collection than anything else. I’ve always been a fan of Dragon, even when people were complaining about how the kits went together. I grew up building Frog, Airfix, and Matchbox kits in the 70s, so I can basically build just about anything. That’s part of the challenge for me personally, otherwise, I’d be collecting die-cast and using that time to play more golf.

These new kits have to be hurting Tamiya. Face it, there’s a finite number of modelers out there, and they have limited disposable incomes. This is a graying hobby, and we’re not getting any larger in numbers. Growth has come from dwindling numbers of modelers spending more of their money. When I was a kid (in the early 70s) every kid in my neighborhood built models; cars, planes, tanks, ships, sci-fi. It was cool, like playing baseball and riding bikes all day long. We spent our allowances on model kits, and every five-and-dime and drugstore in town had kits of all types, even in the little one-horse town I grew up in. That’s far from the truth today, which is why kits are now in excess of $40 for a piece of armor. The plastic model industry has followed US, they’ve adapted to their customer base. We’re older, we have more money, and as experienced consumers, we expect a better product.

Granted, Dragon is releasing every German subject they can think of…because that’s what sells. But, their T-34 series is very nice, and so is their Sherman series. Academy’s M-10, M-36, and M-12 are state-of-the-art kits. AFV club has done some great modern subjects, from their M88 series to their M35 and M928. Even Italeri has done a very nice Leopard recently.

I look at it this way…companies release new kits because they can afford to. If their current product line is selling, they’re making money and have the ability to cut new dies (which is not cheap). If you accept that premise, then consider how many new kits Tamiya has released versus Dragon, Academy, Trumpeter, and AFV Club. Regardless of how you feel about Tamiya (good or bad) or Dragon, you have to admit, we’ve seen lots of new releases from these four, and Tamiya is just not keeping pace.

I know they’re not going to buckle, or even drop out of plastic kits, because they have a strong, dedicated consumer base. We also have to remember that the vast majority of Tamiya’s revenue comes from RC sales, not plastic kits. I just hope this new competition encourages them to become aggressive with new kits and releases.

Jeff

33

Well, one does assume that the new competitors are cutting back on the dominance of Tamiya in the market – assuming that all of the new kits are not growing the overall market. Still, I don’t think that means that Tamiya is in deep trouble. That was my point.

I also don’t agree that the expansion into quarter scale is an act of desperation, because there’s no law that says that Tamiya has a monopoly of that scale. If it turns out that it’s profitable, presumably Dragon and Trumpeter and AFV Club will get in on the action, and I’m sure Tamiya knows that.

34

That’s an important point that many people do not realize.
Also, Tamiya markets a wide range of hobby supplies, such as cement, paints, putties, brushes, airbrushes, compressors, all kinds of modelling tools, diorama accessories, cases, bases…the list goes on.

I’d bet that most Dragon, Trumpeter, or AFV Club armor kits are seeing the application of some Tamiya product or another applied to their finish somewhere along the way.

By the way, In addition to the 1/35 Leclerc, Tamiya will release two more completely new 1/35 armor kits in 2005 (as told to me by the guy who is designing them. He wouldn’t tell me what they are, though!). Three new 1/35 kits in a year doesn’t seem like a bad pace at all to me, and certainly does not seem to indicate that Tamiya is dropping out of the 1/35 armor biz.

Actually, I don’t really care who makes them, as long as we, the modellers, are getting kits we want at prices we can afford. We hold all the cards, because we are the ones who control what we buy or do not buy. Companies who want to succeed will do their best to satisfy their target market.

So now we will have three 88s to choose from: the old but good Tamiya kit, and the excellent new kits from Dragon and AFV Club.

What could be better for the modeller than all these choices? [:D]

35

Here here…nice way to close out this discussion Brian.

I’m still going to buy them, and build them. I have no dedication to any one manufacturer except one: myself. :slight_smile:

Jeff

36

Exactly – and I personally am much more curious to see what those two other kits are than to know which new German WWII vehicle Dragon will do a 3-in-1 for.

37

[quote]
QUOTE: Originally posted by Larry_Dunn

Right. The SdKfz. 7 was the most common hauler, but the SdKfz. 8 12t vehicle was commonly used too. (It was also just big enough to mount the gun on, in a pinch.) The Famo was so big that it didn’t have to tow the gun – you could mount the gun right on the vehicle.

Does anyone else find it odd that Tamiya discontinued their kit of the most common vehicle used to tow the Flak 18 and 36 right when the newer kits from Dragon and AFV Club are starting to hit the market?[sigh]

38

I didn’t do my post right. The middle paragraph was originaly posted by Larry_Dunn[%-)]

Sorry Larry.