AHHH! Oh No, my hetzer ruined[BH], I was doing the doog weathering turiot about oil paint dot and then smeared it, but it didn’t work, it cover the nice camo and when I, tried to wipe with paint thinner but it wpe off the arylic paint under, now it looks like someone puck on it.[xx(]
the problem was mose likely too much spot, but now I have no idea what too do, I need help now fast!
did you have a coat of future above the water based paint?
[#ditto]
Oil based washes shouldn’t harm acrylics. Was your base acrylic or enamel? It worked for me on my KV. You may have to strip the paint and re-do it all.
The key to a successful us of the dot method for washing is to have a nice protective layer between the wash and the paint (such as Future). You also have to be careful the “liquid” you’re using for the wash. Turpenoid works great over Future and acrylics as it doesn’t react with the paint. You’ll also want to make sure the paint and future are cured, which takes much longer and is different than just dry.
You undoubtedly had too much oil paint in your “dots”–all you need is really just a tiny bit. That’s probably why it “covered your paint”!
NEVER, EVER “wipe” off paint, washes, etc—lightly dab with soft tissue if necessary. YOu probably could have actually saved the base coat if you had just flooded the surface with thinned, diluting the oil paints.
Forget using that Future stuff–it is not necessary!!! Furthermore, being a slick, hi-gloss finishing agent, it willl only cause our oil wash to run to the seams and corners–NOT what you want for the oil dot method!
I’m sorry to hear that you had a problem with your oil dots. You should be able to repaint it after the thinner dries. Any chance of you just “spot” painting what you ruined?
None of the techniques we use are necessary… there are always a half a dozen ways to get similar effects.
I do one one flat side at a time, so if I’m working on the right side, then the model is laying on it’s left. When done properly, it works like a champ, even with Future. The downside to not using a layer like future (not necessarily a downside, just makes the effect look different) is that the washes tend to “grab” a little more on the flat paints, which is great if that is the look you’re going for. By keeping the suface that I’m working on parallel to my work bench, I still get a great grubby look with no risk to the paint, decals or finish. But that’s just my preference. [:)]
I like to seal up my decals before I begin any of the weathering. Do you seal up your decals Doog before the washes? If so, what do you use?
espins, sorry–I don’t want to come off as dogmatically as a know-it-all jerk that we just saw here recently, but I don’t use any sealers whatsoever unless absolutley necessary–like, in the case of severe decal shine or somethimg. Even then I only will “spot flat” the area. Neither do I apply gloss under my decals. I simply apply them and then tamp them down with a soft brush wet with Solvaset. Sometimes it take a couple of applications, but very, very rarely have I EVER had silvering issues! And then again, if I have, I find it easier to just paint out the silvering with a fine detail brush.
I think there’s far too much overuse of finishers/sealers. Gloss will yellow over time, and anything you add before the final finishing steps–like Future–will take away detail by filling up small depressions, and channels, and will soften the edges of painted details. I suspect that perhaps a lot of guys liberally apply them more out of fear that they’ll have issues with silvering or paint degradation, but I swear I’ve never had those problems–the only times I seem to have had sealant/paint problems is when I used dullcoat! The dreaded “fogging” effect! [:O]
Incidentally, the “grab” of the flat paint actually IS what you want with the oil dot method–the effect of the oils all over the finish is the intentin of the technique. YOu may be able to get the same result with an overcoat, but then again you’ve got that darkening hi-gloss problem and the detail filling issues. If it works for you, that’s great–but I think that without the Future you get a truer impression of what the finish actually is, without the need for even MORE sealant flat coat to dull down the Future.
Yes I did had a futur coat, two coats in fact, but maybe the problem was the wrong type of thinner, the hetzer paint is tamiya acylics, and the paint thinner I use to wipe off the oil paint was tamyia paint thinner (only one I had).
Fortunatly the situation isn’t as bad as it seems, most of the tanks is “reasonbly” ok, but there are some spots that are REALLY bad, you can see the models original color. And I’m out of dark yellow. F$%!*tasique.
I think you discovered the culprit. Had you used mineral spirits, you wouldn’t have damaged the acrylic base.
What I suspect happened was, your oil paint medium–thinner or mineral spirits, whatever–weakened the acrylic surface, and then your use of the actual Tamiya thinner attacked the Tamiya acrylic paint as you would expect it to.
Two coats of Future is—IN MY OPINION—absolutely too much coating to put on your model. And to be honest, consider this–it didn’t really protect your base coat much anyway? Why did you think that it was necessary to use two coats in the first place? I’m seriously asking as to why you would think you needed it? For the decals? Or for “protection”?
Note that, in the case of all three builds–my Hetzer, my Brummbar, and my E-100,–I simply let the base coat camo dry overnight, and DID NOT use ANY SEALER OF ANY KIND!. All were painted with Tamiya acrylics, and I had no problem with either decal silvering nor paint degradation.
EDIT I might add that Tamiya thinner is, pound-for-pound, just abou the MOST EXPENSIVE thinner you could use for this type of action! [sigh]
On a related note - be careful as we haven’t really addressed the issues of using different paints (laquers, enamels, acrylics) and using various wash techniques (turpenoid/oil wash, enamel wash, acrylic wash). If you are using washes that will react and therefore damage the paint, it is imperative that you have a clear protective layer that is “inert” to the chemicals in the wash to protect the paint.
That’s one of the many reasons why people use Tamiya Acrylics and turpenoid/oil paints for their washes as they don’t affect each other. When using enamels, you have to be much more careful which chemicals you use. [:-^]
The reason i use two coat of futur is for the the first one was for the decals but the second was for spot that i forgot and places that got wipe off. yeah, it didn’t work.
Right now I’m still trying to wipe of the oil paint with tamiya paint thinner (it does work, but you must do it ASAP before the paint dry’s and becomes permenated). I really don’t want to lose this one, if not then I will have no other choice but to remove all the paint with oven cleaner.
Over on the “Autos” forum, there’s a newer thread about an ebay Camaro restoration–the guy used “Simple Green” to remove an old coat of paint–go check it out; I couldn’t believe how well it took off the paint!
BTW, IMO, leave the Future coat off the next attempt and just apply your decals over a spot shot of gloss.
I’m going to chime in here. Patience, grasshopper. Before trying really advanced techniques, learn the basics. Get tem down pat before you move to elaborate and somewhat difficult techniques. None of us built magazine quality models the first time out.
You mentinoed tamiya thinner. If you can use that with your tamiya acrilycs, you CANNOT use it to thin oils.
I also agree with Doog, this site promotes way too many layers of finish. And while Future gives a good gloss finish, remember, it’s designed to be layed on a floor, not a model. When I need to gloss something, I ues Testor’s Glosscote laquer from my airbrush with hardware store paint thinner at $2 a gallon if needed.
Agreed.
Gotta learn to walk before you can run. If you’re just starting to work with oils, it might be better to start by getting a simple mono-colour wash down. If you’re trying a technique you’ve never used before, perhaps you should do a test run on an old junker before using it on your latest pride and joy. That way, if you mess up, it’s no big deal.
When using oil washes, my preference is for a flat surface rather than a gloss. I do “spot” gloss for decals but then apply a flat coat over them so as to have a uniform surface before applying a wash. As I’ve said in other posts, I tend to thin more than the norm and paint in very light coats, so I don’t “flood” the details.
You guys are right, I mit have rust on this one, I have practise on other models (tried water base paint on a rejected chinook) and learn that it didn’t work.
Unfortunatly I just realise that oven cleaner or the auto forum can’t help for one reason, the decals. If I remove the paint the decals will fall off and will be useless. and i’ll be more of a pain to find some the same.
I fear that I lost this one, just like the tiger and t-72. hope the flakpanzer dosen’t has the same faint.[V]
The hetzer would have had pretty simple German markings. I have some spares as I’m sure other here who woul;d be happy to help you out.
[#ditto] Thats what I use as well. Only problem I had was using the wrong color of oils. Learn by mistake. Turned my Merkava green then a light green tint. My bad resulted in repainting.
I’m in the minority in that I use enamels for all of my finish work vs. acrylics. In that sense, having the Future coat in between is an essential element to protect the basecoat. I apply Future very lightly, as mist coats vs. heavy “wet” coats, and have never had an issue with losing detail or depth as a result. It requires some patience and practice, but still produces the desired level of protection. I used to be in the “just say no” to Future school but having used it for some time now, it’s a staple in my overall method and approach due to the use of enamels. [;)] Just one path to the final destination.
T-rex, it’s likely that you’ll have to strip and start over. It’s interesting to hear that the Tamiya thinner worked with the oil paints, but that just indicates how powerful it is as a thinning agent I guess.