Color Matching, how important is it?

General Discussion General Modeling Discussion
1

Okay so I was about to start another build, and I was looking at the colors suggestions that the model has. Then I started looking to see what paints that I had. I find that I don’t have many of what is suggested so I went to a local hobby store, where I find some but not all.

Does anyone really follow what is suggested or do you simply mix what you think looks about right? Plus I am a little color blind so many of the colors look somewhat the same to me.

Example, the Dark Gull Grey, Light Gull Grey, Navy Gray, Engine Grey all look the same to me. Along with many of the Blues and some of the Reds. Should I try to match the names of the colors suggested or should I just stick with what ever looks good to me. I know many will say, to go with what I like, but at the same time I would like for it to look authentic.

Ideas?

2

Unless you are modeling very recent prototypes, the color changed constantly as soon as they were rolled out into the sun. Modern paints are quite color stable, but even planes and ships built in the sixties were painted with paints that were not very stable. If you are modeling a subject as it was rolled out, I wouldn’t worry too much. If you do any weathering, that means you are not depicting factory finish. You can use weathering to indicate you are expecting some chalking and bleaching. It is a good idea to err on the side of going lighter and to less saturation to fit the idea of weathered colors. The more weathering you do, the less you need to worry about color accuracy.

If it is a subject that was kept indoors and only rolled out into the outside environment on rare occasions that is something else.

3

I TRY to get as close as I can on reccomended colours, but, like Don mentioned… as soon as they start seeing weather, they colours start shifting. And for a lot of older subjects, the photos they are using as references, could themselves have shifted, etc. My favourite story, from a British aviation mag (need to dig that out), was a crew chief from an RAF unit. After repairs, or maybe a freshly delivered machine, his boys were in charge of painting it RAF Olive Drab or something. With on-hand paint stocks. Took them 3 tries before they decided it was close enough, gave up and applied what they had.

4

I agree with Don. Unless you’re building for a museum or something, or as a display piece for the company that originally painted those planes, remember that when you’re modeling, you’re making “Art”–you’re producing a representation of something in a greatly reduced scale. Since light plays differently upon a small object than it does on a large plane or tank, even if you put the “correct” paint on it from the factory, it won’t exactly “look” right in small scale because of the effect of light and shadow on a smaller object. There’s just no comparison.

Plus, larger objects attract dust, dirt, soot, grime, and all of that tints a paint coat. When modeling, “ballpark” colors are all you really need—within reason, of course.

5

Keep in mind that if you apply future it alters the color slightly anyway.

Groot

6

It really is a personal choice, obviously it is important to some judging by the amount of paint brands you can find for a specific colour (though some are not always that accurate).

I think many of these branded mixes are based on 1:1 scale, so right out of the bottle onto your 1/72 scale model will be inaccurate. Though these days, a lot of finished models are viewed online, with a perspective of ‘you are there’ standing in front of the real thing, so scale effect does not come into play here, at least I don’t think.

Unless the finishing techniques employed are extremely heavy, you should still see a difference between weathering on a marketed brand paint and a matching mix made at home - mind you, some people are very good at making their own mixes.

Advantages of buying specific colours are, if you run out you know there is matching colour right off the store rack. If you are building multiple subjects that use the same colours, and you want them to match, again the paint is there already made. Also, you don’t have to worry about wasting paint in trying to mix your own.

regards,

Jack

7

You mentioned being slghtly color blind. Of course this will affect your perception of each of these colors. While Navy Gray and Engine Gray are somewhat close to one another, they are markedly different from Light and Dark Gull Grays, which are noticably different from each other as well. Yes, there is color shift on equipment once it goes into service. But it is not to the point of say a Navy Gray helicopter fading to Dark Gull Gray in hue. Unless perhaps it is a derelict aircraft that has been un attended to for many years. If your LHS is out of the recommnded color, I suggest conversing with the owner/clerk to see if they have a suitable alternate in stock. Some paint lines have colors in their series sub areas that are similar and will do in a pinch.

8

Everyone has their own opinion. I personally think its really important to match, even if the model doesn’t look right.

9

The action of light upon a full-size vehicle vs a model is easy to test and verify. I remember an instance where a guy was demonstrating this phenomenon. I can’t remember if it was on Youtube or what, but he had a paint chip that had chipped off the Leopard I at Aberdeen. He was standing about 50 feet from the tank, and he held the chip up in front of the camera. The chip was a dark olive, almost brackish looking. The Leopard behind him was almost glowing yellow-brown. Looking from the chip to the tank, you would never have thought that the chip came off that tank. I would have almost bet on it. Yet he held the chip in front of the camera as he was walking to the tank, and put the chip right up against the hull. Damnned if it didn’t match right up! It was a powerful demonstration of how light affects color perception.

Whether you’re viewing a model online or not won’t affect the color perception of it. You have accurately described how the paint out of the bottle will look wrong on a 1/72 tank, but it’s really the same for a 1/35 tank. You can easily tell when a modeler doesn’t lighten his Dark Yellow before painting a German WWII tank–it’s just too rich, too dark, You have to lighten the paint tone to get a proper-looking model as it would appear in scale. It’s all about fooling the eyes and the brain. [:)]

10

It is obvious from my posts that I think it is a pretty big deal to match colors. I have 381 Acrylic colors matched to FS 595A (pre 1984) right now, with 5 new colors on their way from Tower as we speak.

But,that doesn’t mean that anyone else HAS to take it that seriously, or even that they should,they should do whatever they choose. (pssst, they should stop saying that people can’t match paints up, though, it can be done, if you have the standard on your desk)

In your case,you are going to want to pick one or two brands of paint, and go by either the labels on the paint jars/tins or go by one of the paint matching sites. If you prefer Enamels and can get Model Master (or Humbrol, or whatever your choice is), then when you go to paint something that is labeled as a “different Gray” than what you used in another place, if you are in the same paint line, that gray will be different.

you will need to trust people a bit, because it is very noticeable whether a color started as Light Gull Gray, Dark Gull Gray, or Gull Gray, and some companies are detailed enough (or designed their paints long enough ago) that they sell us Engine Gray, Seaplane Gray, and Dark Gunship Gray as the correct different colors for that time period (instead of just selling all three as x6081)

the quickest way I have found to give matches for a lot of colors at once is to send someone to

http://www.paint4models.com/

then you can modify the chart’s output for the paint types or ranges you are interested in

hope this helped

Rex

11

As far as photo accuracy, this is a real can of worms. It depended so much on the lab processing the film, and the printing process.

As far as published photos- photos in a book or magazine printed on a printing press, this may be even worse than actual photographs. Colors could even shift during a printing run.

Modern digital cameras can TAKE images with a pretty good color accuracy, but again duplicating/printing the images is where it is hard to maintain accuracy.

This is why better references actually have real color chips bonded into the book or monograph.

12

color chips would be the “standard on your desk”

as far as “don’t get it exact, it weathered”,it keeps getting overlooked that anyone asking “what color is a ________?” DOES NOT know what color to start with, before he weathers it.

That color is a constant, which color each modeler chooses to start with and then scale effect, weather, or leave as a fresh new coat is what changes.

it is a fairly safe bet that the answer “gray, it was gray” doesn’t really help a modeler at all, if he has a color pic, he already knows it is gray. If he has a B+W photo, he reallllllllly needs to know which gray it started as.

Those of us that know which Light Gull Grays match up to the standards should be telling people about them,not just say that “all Light Gull Grays model paints are the same”, when they very obviously are not.

People talk all the time about how many modelers come and go,but, how many come on a forum to find out what paint to buy when the call out is “H-315” and instead of being told that “the color is Gunze or Aqous H-315 Flat Light Gull Gray, and you can get that in Model Master enamel or Lifecolor acrylics”,they get told that “you can’t match to photographs, and they weathered anyway, etc, etc”

Then they leave without ever finding out that they have a model with one of the easiest colors in modeling to get.

The people asking the very basic questions need a basic answer,they will get their own advanced methods and ideas if/when they get their first five kits finished

just my own thoughts

Rex

13

But it seems to me the original question was more of a “how important is it” than what specific color should I use for such and such ship. I think some of us have been trying to answer the question of “how important is it.”

14

Knowing the starting point is important. And the properties of peculiar paints/colors. 34079 was used by the Army in the MERDC period and the Air Force as part of the SEA and Europe I schemes. But they seemed to weather differently. The Army stuff often weathered with a hint of blue as it faded, yet the Air Force stuff seemed to fade less and kept a more dark Olive tone. But both were made to the same Federal Standard. I don’t know how often the AF would overhaul and repaint aircraft, but Army AFVs went for many years in the same paint scheme and weathered accordingly.

15

There is another reason for getting colors matched pretty close as your starting point.

A lot of people get thinking that “Bright Red is Bright Red” and “Dark Blue is Dark Blue”

But, that wouldn’t allow a modeler to display an FAA AEW Skyraider (in their fantastic Dark Blue color) next to a USN AD-5W Skyraider (in our yucky Sea Blue Gloss) and show off the contrast in the two color schemes. the same goes for Red, the Red on British Trainers is a different color than the Red(s) used on USN trainers.

Heck, most modelers don’t believe that there were two International Oranges, mostly because they keep getting told that there wasn’t. But, the Lady Jessie Skyhawks are the proof that the Int’l Oranges are different, and also prove that that isn’t “red” on the tail flash.

All of that is pretty hard to depict unless you have matched the colors to a standard,and ignored kit paint directions a bit, whenever needed.

Red