When a plane got hit and they put a patch over it, was the patch the same color as the plane or was it different and how thick would it be in 1/48 or 1/72 scale.
Thanks,
David
Whether the patch were painted depended on circumstances. Ideally, yes, the patch would have been painted to match the part of the plane it was on. In reality, sometimes it didn’t get painted at all, sometimes it was done in a different shade. The differences in shade could have come from different batches of paint (very, VERY common!) or from the fact that the old paint was more weathered and sunburned. There are photos of planes with bare aluminum spots on them like measles. Sometimes, entire assemblies from other planes were grafted on, such as the the port wing of the famous B-17 “A Bit-O-Lace,” and many others.
I have some photos of repaired battle damage on the “Memphis Belle” that I’d be happy to share, as soon as I figure out how to put photos in these postings! Apparently, the sheet metal shop had a stack of round, die-cut patches that were about 3" in diameter. They were riveted on the inside and outside of the skin of the ship with what looked like pop rivets. The Belle had about a jillion of them in the tail gunner’s compartment, which was the only section I was able to get that close to.
Larger holes were patched with square or fitted patches, again, one on the inside, one out the outside. They were riveted with a mess-o-rivets. One of my photos shows an oval hole, about 2" by 4", with at least 26 rivets in the patch. The sheet metal around the damage appears to have been trimmed and piened down flat before the patches were put on.
In the case of the “Memphis Belle,” all the patches had been painted in the background color, and I’ve never seen battle damage visible on any of the photos of her. But she was a famous showpiece, and ordinary aircraft might not have recieved such generous treatment. With those planes flying three or four missions a week, and the odds of one lasting more than a few missions being quite slim, sheet metal workers could be forgiven for slacking off on the cosmetics.
Having said that about cosmetics, consider this: I recently interviewed a former 8th AF waist gunner. The ship he flew to Kiel on 4 Jan, '44 had been shot to doll rags over Emden in November, but he was completely unaware of the previous damage. It must have been repaired pretty well!
David - From the pictures that I have seen they look like losenge shaped aluminum pieces. That was especially on fabric.
Mike T.
It depends on where the damage is and how extensive it is. In a non stress area with minor damage a patch of .015 to .020 thickness would be used. On high stress areas a much thicker patch of .035 to .050 would be used. If large areas are damaged, sub assemblies would have to be replaced. Damage to a replaceable panel or door, they would be replaced. Not all patches or repair would be painted right away. It may fly several missions before time allowed a paint touch up.
In Nam, my RF-4C got a patch made out of a C Ration can. No need to paint as it was already OD in color. It also had Lima Beans and Ham on the patch. [(-D]
Thanks for the help guys, that story about the C ration patch is interesting. I was thinking of cutting masking tape and then painting it. Does this soun OK?
David
Bernie, do you mean the patch had “Ham and Limas” printed on it, or that there was still ham and limas on the patch? If the latter, I’d be surprised to hear that Phantom didn’t puke all over the sky! But at least someone found a use for that stuff than eating it! Talk about your violations of the Geneva Conventions!
The patches I saw on the Belle were about .020" thick, which in 72nd scale would be .00027" thick, which I think is less than decal stock. That would make them invisible unless unpainted.
What kind of damage are thinking about protraying?
The patch had the words printed on it with yellow letters. Don’t worry, we were not conducting germ warfare. [:-^]
ROFLMAO. I love it!
Darwin, O.F. [alien]
That would be a cool detail to add to a build! LOL
With fabric, the size and method of repair depends on several things, type of damage (ie. hole, tear etc), size of damaged area, and maximum speed (VNE) of the aircraft. Small holes and tears (bullet holes) are normally repaired by doping a round patch over the hole - the patch must extend a minimum of 1.5 inches from the edge of the hole (4" if the VNE is greater than 250 mph). Long tears are sewn closed using a baseball stitch and then covered w/a doped on cloth patch that matches the shape of the repaired area. If the damage covered a large enough area, the entire area between adjacent ribs or longerons were recovered. Once the new cloth had been installed, maintenance instructions had you apply by brush 3 coats of clear dope, followed by 3 coats of silver then the color coat. The octagonal apparence of the final coat is a result of applying the final color coat with a brush.
Since cloth is so thin (take a look at your bed sheet - it’s pretty much the same as Grade A cloth), replicating a doped area over a patch is simply a matter of painting the area where you want a patch with a darker version of the surrounding paint.
I was thinking of having some holes in the tip of the wing, sort of like a last minute maneuver saved it from being hit minus 2 or 3 25mm shells from a Japanese gun.
David
hmmmm…doubt many aircraft would survive 3 25mm hits…Germans calculated that on average a B-17 could be brought down with 2-3 20mm hits…
It all depends on where the hit occurs. There are numerous photos of WW-II B-17s and B-24s as well as fighters returning with unbelievable damage. You can blow away an awful lot of sheet metal on the surface, but as long as you don’t destroy a critical structural member, it will still fly.
There is the well known story of the A-10 in Gulf War One that took an SA-6 direct hit in the starboard wing. Something like 30% of the wing was destroyed, but it still flew back home. A significant amount of the debris was ingested by #2 engine. It slowed down, hiccupped a few times and came back up to about 95% power. To quote the pilot, “When I looked out at the wing and saw the landing gear assembly through the hole, I knew I was in trouble!” Another A-10 in Gulf War Two had an SA-6 detonate near the tail. The damage looked terrible, but in fact, was mostly just a bunch of holes in the sheet metal. The pilot had to go into “reversion” or manual control, so there must have been some damage to the hydraulics as well.
Darwin, O.F. [alien]
For damage I suggest that you look at the (Israeli?) F-15, which got back, even though an entire wing had gone. Years ago, I worked with a former 609 Squadron rigger, and he said, that, even during their most hectic times, in the Battle of Britain, all repairs were painted “Green, brown, red, sky-blue-pink, didn’t matter what. Slap it on, and get them back up, that’s what we did.”
Edgar
often repair patches would be primed with zinc-chromate primer without the proper color coat applied. I remember one story I read in Smithsonian Air & Space magazine about an Army Mohawk observation/spotter plane in Vietnam which was covered in with such patches.
There’s an O-2A Skymaster at the Military Aviation Preservation Society in Canton, OH which has eight interesting patches. Each patch on the aircraft (from ground fire over Vietnam) has a small Purple Heart Painted on it. It’s a pretty interesting detail, which I’ve heard was quite common. Here’s a link
http://www.mapsairmuseum.org/skymaster.asp
Semper Fi,
Chris
PS Any sheet metal repair that I applied was properly prepped and painted… most of the time.
Man. There’s a mess of Jarheads here. Cool.
For me, the most challenging part of simulating battle damage has been getting the plastic thin enough. Look at pictures of shot up aircraft, and there’s tons of 'em on the web or in books. A bullet or piece of shrapnel leaves a hole larger than itself. Because the plane is moving forward and the bullet generally crosses its path at some angle, you don’t get a hole as much as you get a tear in the sheet metal. The edges curl away from the path of the projectile. Plastic has to be very thin to achieve that effect. When the metal is repaired, the curled areas have to be either cut away like proud flesh around a jagged wound, or hammered down flat. I’d never considered rendering damage to fabric, and appreciate very much the quote from the regulations on that.
Here’s my take on portraying patched battle damage: hit the damaged area with a generally circular spray of brighter or less weathered-looking paint, or mark off the entire panel and repaint it. Don’t forget to do both upper and lower surfaces, 'cause such damage generally perforates through-and-through.
I saw a CH-46 in Nam that had a bandaid painted over each hole, clearly indicating a discretionary time scenario!