Pardon my ignorance of German WWII aircraft but are these the same aircraft or were they different?
I have always wondered that and never really looked into it.
Thanks
Mike
Yes, they are the same. The Bf stands for “Bavarianische Flugzeugwerke” which means “Bavarian Aircraft Factory”. Me for Messerschmitt probably came from the media.
Just gonna post …hee hee… I am too slow!
Dan
Did the rest of Messerschmitt’s aircraft have this designation? I know about the 110 but how about the 262?
Just a little correction, the ‘Bf’ stands for ‘Bayerische Flugzeugwerke’.
Both ‘Bf’ and ‘Me’ are correct for the 109, and, I believe, the 110, as these aircraft were designed during the time before der Bayerische Flugzeugwerke became incorporated as Messerschmitt AG. After the name change the prefix of ‘Bf’ was used interchangeably with that of ‘Me’ on all levels within the Luftwaffe.
All other Messerchmitt aircraft which were designed after this time should have the ‘Me’ prefix and not the ‘Bf’.
There’s an excellent explanation of the ‘Me’ vs ‘Bf’ issue on The 109 Lair. Click on ‘Articles’ and then on ‘Bf or Me - an explanation’.
Fade to Black…
Thanks guys, as usual you are a wealth of information. [bow][tup]
Mike
Blackwolf - The Lair is a great site. Thanks!
I read the article, and it made a vague reference about Messerschmitt being in disfavor with the RLM. I read somewhere else that the RLM was so upset with him that they wanted no mention of his name associated with any aircraft, let alone one that was so superior to anything else at the time, and that it was their requirement that the designation be Bf, rather than Me. I don’t have my reference at hand right now, so I can’t check on it, but do you know anything about why or how he became so disfavored?
stinger
The bf was for the ‘Bayerische Flugzeugwerke’ until Messerschmitt bought the company and your base…er… all of bayerische flugzeugwerke belonged to the mastermind Messerschmitt and then he renamed it… correct me if i mwrong
The bf was for the ‘Bayerische Flugzeugwerke’ until Messerschmitt bought the company and your base…er… all of bayerische flugzeugwerke belonged to the mastermind Messerschmitt and then he renamed it… correct me if i mwrong
The bf was for the ‘Bayerische Flugzeugwerke’ until Messerschmitt bought the company and your base…er… all of bayerische flugzeugwerke belonged to the mastermind Messerschmitt and then he renamed it… correct me if i mwrong
Is there an echo in here? [:P]
Stinger,
You ARE correct. I watched a Discovery Wings show about the 109, and it mentioned the exact same thing - that Messerschmitt was not particularly liked by someone in the RLM, so anything that he designed had the Bf designator on it instead of Me. Later in the war, that was overruled for some reason (probably for the reasons mentioned earlier in this thread), and the Me designation was used for subsequent aricraft designs. I’ve also read this somewhere, but danged if I can remember where I read it.
It had a lot to do with politics. Not to sure about the players in this but I beleive that Goering was involved.And I think Hitler was too. I read this in a book several years ago and I’ve been racking my brain trying to remember. Between that and the quizz I’m not going to have any brain cells left. Ask Blackwolf, he knows an awful lot about the Luftwaffe and he would probably know the answer to this one.
Roadkill, i think you’re getting closer to the answer there. I know it was political, and Goering does kinda ring a bell. I know I have a book on it but I’m outta town for the next week or so (what a time, just when one needs the answer).
If I remember right, the RLM was actually quite mad that Willy’s design was so great, and they couldn’t deny it, so to acceed to that truth, and still dis Willy, they put out the Bf requirement.
Also, If I’m not wrong, Messerschmitt funded the design himself, as the government had dropped him from their research program funding.
I dunno, I’m at that age where fuzzy logic starts to make sense, and memory is just a thing of the past. (Now, have I heard that before somewhere? Seems to me that…oh,… nevermind).
Blackwolf, we need ya here, bud.
I believe that the hostility existed between Messerschmitt and Earhard Milch. Milch was the figure behind Lufthansa’s early success, and was later head of procurement (?) for the RLM. In the 20’s, Messerschmitt had produced a plane (A-20?) that was accepted by the airline, yet became a failure. I don’t believe it was within Milch’s ability to let go of a grudge. He had a reputation for being a ruthless man who got the job done. I either read this in Albert Speer’s book “Inside the Third Reich,” or W.L. Shirer’s “Rise and Fall of the Third Reich,” or it could have been on an episode of “Wings of the Luftwaffe.” Can’t remember for sure, but that’s what I’ve read (or heard).
To clear some points up here…
Willy Messerschmitt did not buy BFW, he was a chief designer for the firm after his own company, Messerschmitt Flugzeugbau, was more or less ordered to merge with BFW by the Bavarian Government in 1927.
The success of Messerschmitt’s Bf 109 design led to his appointment, in 1938, as chairman and managing director of the BFW which was also renamed Messerschmitt AG (Aktien Gesellschaft).
The hostility exhibited towards Willy Messerschmitt by the RLM didn’t fully materialize until after the war was well underway.
Pix has it right that Milch was no fan of Messerschmitt. Milch had lost a close friend in a crash of a Lufthansa M 20 (You were close, Pix!) and, indeed, held a grudge of sorts. But it wasn’t until the less-than-stellar ME 210 entered service that the water really began to boil. The 210 was a poor performer (putting it mildly) and that was the excuse needed to chastise Messerschmitt.
If you want all the relevant info to these questions, I suggest you read the article on the 109 Lair (linked above) and this page: Willy Messerschmitt. Most of the facts contained in both these online resources correspond with numerous printed sources, including a book about Messerschmitt himself ( I forget the title) as well as Top Secret Bird by Wolfgang Späte. This book by Späte is an excellent read, although some may find it boring.
Fade to Black…
It seems that there was quite a bit of energy wasted in the Luftewaffe because of arguements/ disagreements. I guess it’s probably true of all sides though…
Thanks Pix and Blackwolf. I knew you guys would come through! [:)]
Bayerische Flugzeugwerke still exists, the only thing is, they don’t produce planes anymore, but cars. So, after the war they produced one car under the name Messerschmitt, and then changed the name to …
Bayerische Motor Werke…BMW
The symbol of BMW is a styliced aircraft propeller.
Bavarian is complete wrong, since that would mean that it was not a German aircraft but a Dutch one, and I think that everyone agrees that we didn’t face the Dutch between 39 and 45 ?
The 262 is indead ME 262.
Isn’t Bavaria in Germany?