In the PTO and CBI, OD was applied to new medium and light bombers such as B-25s and A-20s all the way thru to the end of the war.
Good thought Stik. but the C-46s in CBI definitely were NM after about late 43. I’m thinking that the medium bombers were not shot down so much in that theater and were older versions. New transport stuff in CATS were all metal.
Interesting on the C-46s in CBI being NMF. Those were not introduced to ETO IX Troop Carrier Command, until Spring 1945, long after the factory switch and those ones were in OD over NG. Photos of the Varsity Rhine Drop have ample evidence of this. I think loss rates of C-46s in CBI were higher just due to the overall nature of the mission there. Not strictly Japanese fighters. The Hump airlift was very costly in men and machines just from conditions alone. Throw in the occasional roving Oscar or Tojo and it gets higher. Regarding the B-25s there, the later models such as the H and J were introduced into service there in OD/NG after the NMF switch. I would presume it being to hose falling under different commands. The B-25s falling under tactical commanders of 10th or 14th AF and the C-46s belonging to Air Transport Command. Different command staffs, different mindsets. According to Mr Bells Air Force Colors books, the final decision to camo or not was up to the local command.
Very true, but I believe the P-51 was unique as the only aircraft with a laminar wing to go bare metal and thus need the aluminum lacquer to seal the filled seamwork. The only other aircraft that spring to mind are the Hawker Tempest and some fiddling with the late-mark Spitfires, neither of which is exactly known for going without their ocean gray/dark green camo.
For P-51 wings, on my recent go-round I used Alclad semi-matte for the wings, with airframe aluminum/aluminum/duraluminum/magnesium on the fuselage. I think next time I may take Tamiya AS-12 for a spin with the wings to provide some better visual distance.
Stikpusher:
Right, I’ll read up on the ATC a little more tomorrow vis it’s deliveries…
Because it was a pressurized cabin, the aircraft could exceed the physical limitations of it’s crew.
Losses to opposition fighters in CBI were minimal; operational stress was the obstacle.
It had twice the load capacity of a C-47 and could safely fly at 25,000 feet for a total range of 3,000 miles.
Always overloaded in CBI. The weather was unpredictable over the Himalayas without weather ships operating in the flight path.
I really like the C-54 but the double bubble Curtiss has to take the honors of best trooper.
BTW they were a big part of the Foreign Legion’s drop into Dien Bien Phu, along with the C-119. They were true heroes in my opinion, because they knew they would be captured or killed.
The RAF did switch to a silver finish on Spits and Tempests, but that was post War.
Funny thing, but NMF has not been the way to go now for a very long time. Obviously in this age of composites, it’s not an issue.
By Vietnam the USAF had camo back in place after what 1967?
Israel had their earlier birds in NMF in 1967 but the standard was blue on brown.
Jordan had an order of F-104s that were diverted to Turkey in summer 1967 by order of the US State Department until Fall, and they were NMF.
Taken in Amman 2010
Pointless research is one of the benefits of a hobby. As luck would have it, I did all of my writing on the PTO so I don’t have anything on the B-26. (There was a squadron out there very early - painted silver.) But it’s nice to see that local commanders were allowed to give modelers some neat things to look at. NMF was covered partially with lord knows what. (I found a B-25 in Italy painted 2/3ds Olive Green over NMF - one sweet looking bird - almost Japanese. I bought some vaunted Hawkeye acrylic: thinking of using it on a George or Oscar.) As noted above, I found a late 44 Wolfpack razorback that is very dark and no what theater markings on the cowl. (Maybe from those ugly days during Market Garden which proved, if proof was needed, that ground attack was a good way to end up dead even for very good pilots.) From the sounds of it, several Wolf Pack buble tops had RAF inspired schemes. I even saw one with a “Malcom Hood.” A Brit camo bubbletop would be very cool. And the Osprey book has a picture of a horde of 51Ds getting their primer in the factor in prep for presumably something silver. And a late war Navy B-25 (forget what they called it) on a CV deck painted in tri-color navy camo in late 44. And some P51-B variation (looks like it was maybe a two seater: guess that was sometimes done in the field) that is solid red, just when I said there were no red fighters. Serves me right. I don’t have a P-51 in my stash - figure. I do, however, have a RAF P-51 MKII: those have some fine schemes. Actually, if one did up the detail right, doing late war US fighters could be a real exercise in advanced model painting. Imagine doing one of those checkerboards. (Still can’t find confirmation of Archer’s claim that invasion stripes were often field applied RAF Very Dark Sea Grey - that that would look neat too.)
Thanks much for all of the info. It’s lead to some great ideas for future projects beyond the field of Olive Drab.
Eric
Actually, the USAF did not go to Vietnam in NMF. At least on the Century Series. In the early 60s, those TAC aircraft previously in NMF were painted in Aluminum Lacquer for corrosion control purposes. But the SEA Camo started appearing in late 1965 and was pretty much standard across those USAF aircraft tasked with dropping bombs or shooting missiles/guns in theater by late 1966. Israel camoed their NMF planes shortly after the 6 Day War in 1967 and the new three color (Sand/Brown/Light Green) camo was standard when the “War of Attrition” broke out a few months later.
Pointless research is one of the benefits of a hobby. As luck would have it, I did all of my writing on the PTO so I don’t have anything on the B-26. (There was a squadron out there very early - painted silver.)
Actually the 22nd BG had original B-26’s painted in OD41. They were among the first to reach Australia in 1942. Two aircraft from the 22nd were held back at Hawaii with two from the 38th RG where they trained as torpedo bombers and used at Midway. They fought till 1943 when they were reorganized. There were only enough B-26’s left in good enough shape to equip one squadron with the other squadrons receiving B-25’s. They were stripped down to NMF and were called the “Silver Fleet” with their own special insignia on the tail. These lasted til 1944 when they were replaced with B-24’s. A good book to read on the 22nd is Martin Caidin’s “Ragged Rugged Warriors” .
Actually the RAF painted their post-war aircraft in “High Speed Silver”, it was very rare for the RAF to have NMF aircraft. When it happened it was a local effort as the AM preferred to polish (no wax involved) the painted surface to reduce drag.
Fascinating thread…
Here is a newly restored razorback…consensus is that it is WONDERFUL
http://www.warbirdinformationexchange.org/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=41400&start=60
I recommend WIX for all aircraft modelers. Great resto’s and wonderful shots of preserved history.
It is also my understanding that the USAAF had a different shade of OD from the rest of US Army equipment.
Yes indeed they did. The USAAF shade was OD 41, and the Army Ground Forces shade was No.9 according to Mr Zaloga and Mr Bells writings. Color No. 9 was used on all Army equipment: tanks, artillery, helmets, etc. The AAF shade was darker. OD No. 9 was supposed to be the basis of ANA 319 when the colors were standardized mid war.
Bondo, your right about the C-46 being quite a trooper in its capabilities, but it got a bad rap in the Airborne due to Varsity. At that time, being new in theater it had not been fitted with self sealing fuel tanks or a vented wing. It suffered a higher loss rate on that drop accordingly. Gen Ridgeway, Commander of XVIII Airborne Corps (and the senior US Airborne commander) essentially banned the C-46 for any furhter parachute assault use in the ETO after Varsity. (A drop on Berlin’s Tempelhoff was planned for the 82nd if Ike had chosen to beat the Russians to Berlin but never executed) But it could carry more troopers and get them out quicker due to jump doors being on both sides of the fuselage. It would give sterling service alongside C-119s dropping the 187th Airborne RCT and original Airborne Ranger Companies in Korea. And yes, one must admire and salute the bravery of the Legion Paras at Dien Bien Phu. Only the initial jumpers went in with a chance of success. The reinforcements who dropped in after the siege began did so at crazy low level knowing their chance of victory or even survival was poor to nil.
Two Points:
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I have a color chip for OD 319 which Zaloga claims was used by US ground forces. It is a little lighter a bit closer toward the olive end of the spectrum. Zaloga is a Tamiya fan and I’d agree for this color: to my eyes Tamiya XF-62 Olive Drab does match OD 319 (or 9 in ground forces) pretty well. It is has too much olive, for my eyes, for OD 41. (Zaloga is a great fan of “scale” and uses yellow to lighten his OD for shading. He’s also a great modeler: I’d be careful. Almost wonder how buff or deck tan would work.)
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Great Razorback photo: reminds one how big those things were. I interviewed an Aussie Beaufighter pilot and he told me that the first time he saw a P-47 land at Townsville (where father did a stint) in northern Oz. He watched the pilot get out and then sat there waiting for rest of the crew. The thing was the size of his Beaufighter so he only assumed there more guys. About fifteen years ago Planes of Fame had an outpost in Minnesota. I went to one of their “fly ins” and there were maybe 20 planes. Anyway, in one building there was a 47D flanked by a P-39 on one side and a 51D on the other. The 39 was our midget and it looked like a toy. The 51 is of modest size too - at least when compared to a Jug. In the other building they had one of the very few flying Wildcats next to a Hellcat. Depending upon the dimension the Hellcat was very close to the Jug in size and it made the F4F look miniature. The photos make the cats look like relatives: when you see them live, it’s very clear the Hellcat is a completely different buggy. If a 109 would have been there, I’m not sure anyone could have seen it unless they made sure it wasn’t hidden by something like a motor cycle or a bookshelf. Those LW pilots must have been midgets.
Great to see the warbird guys still in action. I talked to Randy Wilson of the then Confederate AF (now Commerative AF) who at least then owned a Wildcat. He said we’d see the day when at least some marks were either retired or maybe only flown once a year. (Chino’s lone Zero is still doing a flight every December the last I checked. Suppose its only a matter of time before a Japanese billionaire buys it.) I’m sure that’s true for planes that are nearly extinct. But if there’s one thing good about young tech zillionaires, you have a whole new generation of gents able to plunk down $20,000 for a pair of Wildcat tires or $150,000 for a 51 engine rebuild. Been told that some marks have actually gone up in numbers considerably. Wonder how long they can fly? I lectured at the Naval Postgraduate School a while back and a student was a B-52 pilot. His plane was older than he was. His son was in AF training and hoped to fly B-52s too. Wonder if you could rule out a 100 year old weapon? I know the Enterprise is scheduled for decommissioning pretty soon, but wouldn’t she be put in reserve for a while? They kept the Iowas there for forty years. Guess the 52 is planned to be around until 2045. Maybe we’ll be broke and they’ll keep it flying for another ten years so we can keep the Dominican Republic in line. Like the good old days: if a navy took good care of it, a ship of the line could last 70 years or so.
Eric
speaking of zero’s here are 2 of the real deal at this years airshow
Israel began applying camo to aircraft starting with the jet age. By 1967 the Mysteres, some Ouragons and most of the Vautours and the all of Magisters were brown/ blue. Same with the helos. I think the Noratlases were still export white over NMF. I don’t know about the C-47s. And the Mirage 3’s were NMF.
It’s a pretty attractive scheme. When the paras moved north from Sinai to the push into Jerusalem on Day 3, I believe they went by road. I drove from Jerusalem to the Sinai border in about 3 hours, would have been faster except we were followed by a drone for about 30 minutes.
Yes, many of their French built aircraft were camo’ed in the tan and blue scheme in the 6 Day War. The biggest exception being their Mirage III fleet. But shortly after that war, the new three color scheme was adopted and the Mirages were among the first to be painted in those new colors. And yes you are correct on the movment of the IDF Paras. They were supposed to jump in the Sinai but airlanded instead due to the rapid armor advance. then they were moved by bus, IIRC, up to the Jeruselum front after completing their missions in Sinai.
I’ve my parents “Flight to Everywhere” by Ivan Dimitri copyright 1944 with many color photos of ATC bases. They indicate the greenish-brownish tint was the predominate color. It could be the processing the color on the pages. But it seems to match OD-#41 per my Archer & Archer closest.
Mr. Bergerud, the short answer to your question is “the model paint which best represents the shade used by the particular factory that made the P-47 you are trying to depict, adjusted for the display lighting you expect to have on your model, and further adjusted for any weathering you have decided upon.” There is no single model paint that does all that. With diligent search on the Internet, you should be able to find some color photos of P-47s in O.D.