I have seen a lot of opinions over the last few months (or longer) regarding the use of Future as a “sealer, decal prep, gloss finish, etc”…Some people seem to take the opinion that it has no valid use in armor modeling, while others contend that it does. It is not my intention to begin a mean-spiritied debate, but rather get varying viewpoints (with specific reasons) and examples of uses and then, as they say, “let the viewer decide” on whether or not they feel they can get a “take away” from the discusssion…Let’s hear it.
The jury is out with me. I too have used it with varied success as a decal-prepper. I’ve had better success with gloss clear-coats. Personally, I’m going to go more with dry transfers in the future so I can worry less about breakage and silvering of the decals.
I don’t like to use it before a wash, because to me it doesn’t sink into the plastic and gets a bit subdued after a flatcoat. However, Ii don’t consider myself the weathering expert.
Well…me and my big mouth…[sigh]
I will admit, I have the same feelings about Future that I have about Baking Soda snow–I kinda feel like the application of it has become sort-of a mythological canard as a “necessary, vital step” in the finishing of a model. Now, in terms of flat-base, acrylic-painted models–which describes much of Armor–I simply believe that, if one uses decal setting solution, it is not necessary for the purpose of setting decals.
Likewise, if using acrylics, I feel that I have shown in the many tutorials I’ve writtten here that not only is it NOT really necessary to seal the base coat with Future, but it is indeed not necessary to seal the paint at all. I do all of my weathering over plain, unsealed, acrylic paint.
Don’t get me wrong–I would be just as adamant about what I see as “abuse” of say, Dullcoat, as I would about any other sealer. I just think it’s an unnecessary step, and one which adds more layers of detail-covering coats over the model.
However–here’s the caveat.
wbill76 has pointed out that modelers who use enamels DO need a barrier coat befor ethe weathering/washing processes, and I believe this is an entirely valid use/reason for using it; however, I wonder if new modelers realize that he this is necessary for enamels only?
I have tried washes over gloss coats, and, IMHO, they “take” better over a dull surface–the roughness of the mocroscopic surface of the flat surface seems to “grab” the pigments better. I think that actually either Shep Paine or Francois Verliden used to advocate washes over gloss; I have preferred flat, however.
SO that’s my [2c]. In my humble opinion, the darkening of the base coat and the subsequent need for additional layers of dullcoat (and the potential risks that that itself entails), as well as other matters of the quirkiness of Future as reported by several modelers, steers me clear from it as a modeling tool. Apologies to those who may be put off by my repeated disparagemnet of it!
Having spoken thus, the incredible modeling skills of, and gorgeous models of both wbill76, espins1, and biffa (all well-known Future users) prove that I don’t know what the hell I’m talking about! [swg].
I CAN see how it would be a prime finishing agent for model cars, however—hmmmm…I may find myself with a bottle of it under the sink yet? [(-D]
I’m not slaved to it but find it useful over my basecoat (whether enamel or acyrlic). It’s a good prep for decals or dry transfers. I re-shoot over the decals and dry transfers too. Then I use the oil & mineral spirits spotting technique. Then comes more dust-weathering. If I feel the subject is still shiny, then I many dust with flat coat as necessary. then pigments. I like this routine for now. Open to other processes.
Thanks MR for starting a specific thread on this. I will preface by saying that what I’m describing is my own method that used Future as an integral piece of my process and is not necessarily the “one true way” for everyone. There was a time when I didn’t use Future at all and didn’t see the need for it and then I actually tried it out and have used it consistently ever since. It’s also worth noting, as doog mentions, that my methods rely 100% on enamels for the basecoat and weathering and this in turn influences the why and wherefore. [;)]
For an enamel based finish, it’s essential to have an acrylic barrier between the base coat and subsequent weathering that will utilize either enamel/thinner or oil-based paint/thinner weathering techniques. Base coats that have cured fully (I’m talking having set for a week or more at times) can tolerate light applications of thinner without reacting for things like pin washes, fuel stains, rust stains, etc. but cannot tolerate any sort of “scrubbing” action or repeated brush strokes like you would see with the dot filter or similar methods. In my method, the Future coat allows for this flexibility by providing an acrylic barrier between the base coat and the weathering and imparts an incredible flexibility not present without it. This is the primary reason I use it. I’ve also begun to experiment with using it to protect layers of weathering from subsequent layers and have seen some good results, more on that in just a bit. As doog mentions, washes or other effects applied to a non-Future or non-glossy surface will interact with the flat “tooth” surface and, as a result, will bloom and not use capillary action as well to keep the wash around certain areas. There are cases where you might want the bloom, others where you would not. I prefer not to have the bloom and will adjust/tighten up washes with with a damp brush and clean thinner and the Future coat allows for this easily vs. a flat coat from my experience.
Additional benefits follow for the application of decals and protecting them from subsequent weathering, I have had unprotected decals react to thinner and paint in a negative way but this can vary depending on the manufacturer, age, etc. of the decals themselves. Better to be safe than sorry IMHO. Having a Future coat also gives the decal setting solution something to blend into as it dissolves the decal. I use Walther’s Solvaset and what I’ve found is that it will also slightly dissolve the underlying Future coat along with the decal itself, imparting a true “painted-on” look as the end result that I’ve not seen without Future. When the decals are sealed in with a second Future coat, the decals are truly seamless to the tank as a result.
I will also add some definition in terms of what I mean as a “coat”. I understand the view point that, if applied heavily, Future can obscure or mute details. Future is a “self-levelling” product, meaning if it’s applied to a surface it will automatically level itself out…this is great if the surface is horizontal, not so great if it’s vertical. I don’t apply Future as a heavy “wet” coat but instead apply it as a very light mist coat through the AB. I don’t apply it just to the spots were decals are going because this can create a fractional mm difference between the Future spot and the rest of the vehicle, creating a very visible square/rectangle/spot since the decal is sitting fractionally above the surface instead of integrated in like it should. The entire vehicle receives a coat, both to protect it for weathering and for decals as mentioned above to avoid this. I apply the mist coat of Future through my Aztek AB using a wide-bore orange tip and this is the ONLY THING I use this tip for, strictly for Future application. The Future is applied from a distance of about 8-10" so that it’s fully atomized and is misted onto the model in quick, multiple passes and avoiding a single slow, heavy, wet coat. The end result is a barrier that’s microscopic in thickness and takes full advantange of the self-levelling properties without producing a thick coat. The process is exactly the same as I use in applying a base coat over a primer coat or pre-shade coat when painting and avoids obscuring detail in the process.
In regards to the darkening effect of Future, this is a temporary effect/result due to the physics of light and how it reacts to a glossy surface vs. a dull surface in terms of light/dark color refraction. I always lighten my basecoat colors in anticipation of the weathering process to avoid a too-dark finish but the Future really doesn’t impact this…it would if you applied the Future and left it as is, but in my process the effect of the Future darkening a finish is only temporary. Subsequent uses of washes, filters, etc. alter the look anyhow and, once all the weathering is completed, I apply a coat of Lusterless Flat via spraycan for convenience and this restores the flat balance and correct light refraction properties. I apply a Lusterless Flat coat for two reasons…1) to seal in all the previous weathering steps and 2) to provide a slight “tooth” surface for the final application of pigments and similar weathering.
This is a process that has slowly evolved over time for me due to the materials I use, the finish I want to achieve, and the addition/subtraction of things via experimentation and reading/seeing what others are able to accomplish. It continues to evolve…sometimes things get added, others get dropped, still more get combined together to keep the process moving. But there most certainly is a reason behind each and every step in the process and if one gets left out, the process can change and produce, sometimes, wildly different results. [;)]
Future is terrific for:
Aircraft: Canopies dipped in Future have greater clarity and protection; gloss clear coat for decaling, and mixed with Tamiya Flat Base for dull coats of varying degrees of dullness; some people even use it as a decal adhesive, prefering it over the oft-times washed off adhesive inherent in poor quality decal sheets.
Auto & Motorcycles: For all the same reasons as above.
Armor: I can see where it would have limited use in this arena, though there are many paths to modeling greatness.
Floor Finish: THIS ACTUALLY WORKS! Amazingly, there are still people who use this product for it’s original use. Often wives are upset with the resultant sludge washes, but YMMV.
And let’s face it, without the Future, we are forever doomed to repeat the past! [:-^]
Well done Bill!
I use Future on everything, I’m using it for dipping sauce on my pretzels right now. [}:)]
I don’t build a lot of armor but I’ve found a light coat future makes my washes blend better. I use acrylic paints and have found I don’t really like how they flow as a wash over other acryllics. Also I tend to only do light weathering and I’ve found washes using flat paints tones the future down to a finish similar to what I’ve seen on most 1-1 vehicles, not the almost chalky flat of many acrylic paints.
As a long time aircraft builder who has more or less moved to armour, I have used Future (and the Aussie equivalents, Super Stride and Super Shine) a great deal. It is an essential step in my aircraft building.
I do not airbrush Future, I brush paint it. As mentioned before Future has marvellous self levelling properties and can be laid down with a flat wide brush with no fear of brush marks. Once the Future is down and cured, decalling takes pace, along with panel line washes. Coupled with an overcoat of Pollyscale flat clear, it is a winning combination for me. The model finish does go darker with the Future on, but lightens back to the correct hue once the clear flat is applied.
I have used Future as a final gloss coat as well on several model builds. My Airfix 1:72 DH-88 Comet (see below) has 14 thin coats of Future, lightly sanded between coats with 2000 grit wet and dry. Unfortunately, JPG compression does not show just how glossy and clean the model looks.
I have just purchased some Archer dry transfers for my 1:72 armour builds, so that I can avoid using any form of gloss coat. hopefully if this experiment with dry transfers is successful, I can omit using a Future gloss coat as part of construction. This is not because of issues with using Future, far from it! Rather, the ommission of a construction/finishing step.
Cheers
Mike
[#ditto]
OK…Thanks to Manny for starting this…so what do we know so far?
It would appear many more modelers use future than not (I will add myself to the group who use it)…sorry Doog[#dots]
It is used much more in other parts of the hobby, cars, canopies for the fly boys, ect.
Most who use it for a decal base except people like Bill who do use it for a sealer.
It is also used for (at least so far)…a floor wax, a food dip and something in phyiscs with space and time. [swg]
One question not discussed…many agree on future as a base (sorry again Doog)…but afer your base of future, if you are covering over decals and the furture base are you…
- Covering with another gloss furture coat
- Covering with future mixed with Tamiya flat to make a flat coat
- Covering with another acrylic flat coat…and who’s
- Doing nothing and allowing all the washes to flatten out the model
Manny sorry somewhat hijack this [
]…but if the consensus is most armor people use it (for some strange purposes also), after the “base coat” call it of just clear future, are they doing anything else to re-flat the model. Or another way, if you use future somewhere in your process, how do you end up with a uniform flat finish in the end???
Rounds Complete!!
I apply a second round of Future to seal decals. Washes are then applied over the 2nd Future coat and adjusted as needed. Once done, everything is sealed with Testor’s Lusterless Flat (not the ordinary Dullcoat, that’s a different product [;)]) to provde the final sealing and Flat coat. The Lusterless Flat is lacquer-based, not acrylic. HTH.
I have almost the same exact methods as wbill.
The one thing I will add is about decaling. I tried to apply decals to a ‘flat’ surface, the water actually damaged the surface. Even though I dried it, there were still small water streaks visible well after the decal had dried and everything had set in. That happened to me on a few occasions. I was tired of seeing the water drop from the bottom of the decal to the bottom of the model, so I started using future. The only problems I have ever had with future are not trusting I have put enough on and going back over it. Then I have put to much.
What I do now is when I mist it with future, I look at it with a magnifying glass. If I see those minute little droplets pretty close together… I am good and let it set.
Having built nothing but autos for the past 13 years I can say I use Future mostly for the clear parts . It’s a great way to “glue” headlights to their bezels. I will not use it for a final gloss coat as I do not trust it to behave during polishing. I also do not use any type of acrylic clear coat for the same reason.
In my figure painting Future works real well to add that glossy look to eyes and mouths. I believe using it this way will make one bottle last well into the next century.
All of my aircraft builds are finished with enamels and since I use washes made from pastels and water I have no fear of any adverse reaction. But it does require a gloss surface. I am 100% Future “challenged”. I cannot spray a smooth coat of future to save my life. And trust me, I have tried every combo of thinned and straight out of the bottle, temperature, pressure… you name it. Maybe it has something to do with the alignment of the stars or some unknown magnetic filed running though my town. For a/c I use MM gloss lacquer. I use Future for anything clear. I will brush it small areas where I need a wash to flow and want something that will dry quick and not have to deal with and AB cleanup.
On my Panther I used acrylics with oil washes for the 1st time. I agree with doog in that I like the way the washes “work” on the flat surface since it does not need to be sealed. As my enamels get used up they will be replaced with acrylics. Armor has the advantage of limited numbers decals so a spot application of Future is practical. No possible on most aircraft due to the number of tiny stencils all over the place.
I do want to try espin1’s technique of the alcohol/Future mix for the stains. Tinting the Future should allow many different effects for fuel, oil or coolant stains.
Some great discussion here, and if we learned anything it is that everyone uses Future a little differently…
I build a/c as well as armor and I do use Future as a prep for the my decaling and then as a sealer of the decals…I then knock the shine down with flat…this makes the decals appear to almost be painted on (the decal is sandwiched between two layers of Future) I also dip my canopies in Future after polsihing them…it removes scratches and also gives it a very uniform and clear look…having said that, the finish you try to achieve on an a/c is much different than one you go for on armor–IMO…
As far as armor, I don’t use Future very much at all…T, too, prefer a wash over a flat surface, although many of the a/c guys love to wash their a/c with a gloss surface (go figure)…I typically use a gloss varnish on areas for decaling then hit it with flat…I have been known to use it on headlights/vision blocks, etc…
The washes on my aircraft (both exterior and cockpit) are done with thinned enamels (which I prefer to oils) and require pinpoint application. Future does a fine job of ‘containing’ the wash whereas a flat coat has a tendency to wick it away from where I really want it.
For me personally, I use it to make sure my decals snug down well and to give them a sealing coat after. I also use it on aircraft much for the same reasons.
as one with LIMITED experience both with building and with future, I think I find it easier to ah…reposition the decals over future BUT I have had them lay down nice without the future as well