I am a brand new member to this forum. I have three B-17 kits (2 of the G mdel and one of the F model). They are the 1/48 scale. My main purpose is to first construct one or both of the G models as per instructions with military appointments and IF I become good enough at it, to use the the F model for the desired modification into a private civilian airliner.
REASON: Back in the early 1950s, our church denomination purchased an F model and had it converted into an airliner to ferry missionary personnel all over the globe. They only used it for a short time as commercial airlines started up and it was not cost productive to maintain it. It was sold and now sits on static display as a G model in England and is named the Mary Alice.
I would love to duplicate the conversion. However the skills to cut portholes and make modifications are beyond me at this point. I can post pics of the converted plane for your perusal.
You don’t necessarily have to cut in windows…you could use decals instead. Typically you can’t see much inside a model anyway especially through small windows such as were installed in airliner conversions.
The aircraft you refer too, was it a C-108 which is the transport version of the B-17 or a surplus B-17 converted. My guess is that it was the cargo variant as it would already have had the windows installed much like the C-87 the cargo version of the B-24 had.
There is a C-108 being restored into a B-17F ? near Crystal Lake, IL. EAA’s Aluminum Overcast too was a C-108 which was converted into a G. The C-108 featured a cargo door on the port side where the waist gunners position would have been.
I have the complete written history and I believe that it was an actual bomber that was produced at the end of the war and never saw military action or service. It was sold off and passed through a couple of hands including someone in the Philippines. There are several pics including me standing in front of it in Duxford England after it has been outfitted with a model G configuration. It was actually an F model. I talked to the curator and he also knew the story including the period of time the Assemblies of God Church owned it and used it as a ferry for their missionaries. I am attempting to learn how to post thumbnail pics so not sure how it will turn out…
I have removed the URLs that are not showing the pictures. It does not appear I have permission to post pictures. The Icon is not showing.
This site has pictures! http://www.taloa.org/hanger28_2.html Note who owned the aircraft and that it was equipped with hydraulic controls. It was also his private aircraft not one for primary airline service.
Its also interesting to learn the other military types of aircraft they flew…and that all US mfr’d aircraft bore a US registration number in the early years.
Those little windows would be easy to preproduce using decals or even with clear styrene. Filling in all of the spaces used for the waist windows, tail guns, chin and belly turrets will be a bit labor intensive. NMF overall…perfect subject for my products [;)]
Not sure why the tail number is not the same. Here is the info posted on the web site at Duxford, England.
Too late to enter combat 44-83735 was sold to Philippine Airlines. the plane was converted to a VIP transport with executive interior and named San Miguel. It was regularly used on flights from Manila to San Francisco during 1948 and 1949. In 1949 it was purchased by the Assemblies of God and renamed Ambassador II. It visited 38 nations as a missionary transport from 1949 to 1951. The plane then joined a fleet of other B-17s operated by the Institute Geographique National in 1952. It was used as a aerial survey aircraft until February 1972. Purchased by a Duxford preservation group it arrived in England in 1975. It was used for spare parts on Sally B until 1978 when it was sold to the Imperial War Museum. A long restoration began that year. All the military equipment had been removed during it long civil life and a row passenger windows had to be removed. After acquiring and manufacturing missing parts, Mary Alice represents one of the finest museum restorations.
Not sure why the tail number is not the same. Here is the info posted on the web site at Duxford, England.
Too late to enter combat 44-83735 was sold to Philippine Airlines. the plane was converted to a VIP transport with executive interior and named San Miguel. It was regularly used on flights from Manila to San Francisco during 1948 and 1949. In 1949 it was purchased by the Assemblies of God and renamed Ambassador II. It visited 38 nations as a missionary transport from 1949 to 1951. The plane then joined a fleet of other B-17s operated by the Institute Geographique National in 1952. It was used as a aerial survey aircraft until February 1972. Purchased by a Duxford preservation group it arrived in England in 1975. It was used for spare parts on Sally B until 1978 when it was sold to the Imperial War Museum. A long restoration began that year. All the military equipment had been removed during it long civil life and a row passenger windows had to be removed. After acquiring and manufacturing missing parts, Mary Alice represents one of the finest museum restorations.
I looked at the Baugher site and found the serial number but can’t find the info you posted about it being built in Long Beach. Can you direct me to that site? I am trying to collect as much info on the actual plane as I can with citations.
Accepting that it is a G-Block 95-DL built by Douglas, would it have been built as a bomber or as some other type of configuration? Did it have the chin turrent and check gun ports at the time of manufature?
this information means that I will have to take one of my two “G” kits and modify it instead of the “F” one. that will be harder as they are the bomber configuration and major cutting will have to be done on the font area to eleminate the gun ports and chin turrent. Anyway, I want it to be a accurate as possible. I can build the “F” as Memphis Belle. I love her as well.
B-17G-95-DL, s/n 43-83735 was delivered as a bomber with miltary equipment on 28 May, 1945. It had turrets and cheek gun positions, plus the Cheyenne tail gun turret not normally found in either of the two kits you mentioned. Unless you have the “ProModeler” version from Monogram and I believe the boxing with the clear plastic left fuselage has the components for the Cheyenne turret as well.
If you’re wanting to make the plane as flown after the modifications it would be easier to use the “F” kit, In my opinion, fill in the cheek positions and modify the older tail turret to the Cheyenne version.
If you can find a copy I suggest “Final Cut” by Scott A. Thompson. It deals with post-war B-17’s and the survivors. It does have much of the information you’re looking for.
A lot of the later G models did not come with cheek guns as it was felt that the chin turret provided enough guns. The cheek guns were mounted on heavy stampings that were installed on the outside skin over the scanning windows so they were easy to add or remove. You could find a G with Cheyenne tail and swap it over to the F just like the 8th AF did in England for chin turreted F and G models.
The original ProModeler version doesn’t have the clear fuselage half, that’s the “Visible B-17”… The PM version contains a fret of PE parts with stuff like ring-sights & ammo chutes for the flex-mounts, seat harness hardware, pilot/co-pilot seat-mounts and some other goodies… Also includes a few “In flight” crewmembers, flight crew, bombardier and waist gunners in O-masks and leather flight suits. Both have the “Cheyenne” tail option. The original Fort kit (“El Lobo II/Chow Hound”)was a G with with E/F/Early G tail with flex-fifties…
Yeah, that was after the crew changed from a Bombardier and Navigator in the nose to just a “Togglier” up there by himself. The Togglier was a gunner who would, on the bomb run, drop the bombs when he saw the lead ship drop theirs… Didn’t even have the Norden on board… Other ships did away with having both Bombardier and Navigator, and cross-trained a Navigator or Bombardier in a “Bombagator”… Also, a lot of squadrons down-sized the crew even further and went to having just one waist gunner and those with H-2X radar didn’t have ball-turrets… You’d have Forts that were crewed by 7 instead of ten… Ten-man crews were still on the lead-ships and in “Purple Heart Corner” of the bomber boxes though…
It was the early model Gs that didn’t come with cheek guns. After reports from the field saying they still needed/wanted them, the factory put the bulged cheek guns from the late F model back on, though in differnet positions from the F model.
Look at the second Fort in line in this factory photo at Boeing’s plant:
I also have 2 Gs and an F on my stack. One of the Gs is partially started. I actually prefer the F. I think the chin turret really doesn’t flatter the lines of the plane. My wife think’s it’s butt ugly. A suggestion might to be to pick up a parts kit on eBay for each model and sort of graft them together. The Fs nose section will be a LOT easier to modify then trying to remove the chin turret flawlessly on a G model kit. To sort of cork up0 the belly turret hole, use one of tyhe parts kits and cut a round section either just in front of or in back of the turret position and use it as a plug. With some filler, and some hand etching, you should be able to get some good results.
