How often did the Fs have a gun or two (30s or 50) protruding thru the nose cone glass? Did Beats Me!? ever have that element? And, where do the 2 main antenna wires start and end? I’ve seen pics of them going to the mast and/or going to the left or right side of the radio room. Thx.
Try Google. B-17F Beats Me! kicks up several hits.
Go to 303rdbg.com and look at the photos of the original 32 B-17F’s of the 303rd (hint-they have serials of 24416-24635 and the roundels have just the star and no bars). The crash photos of Thumper show that the guns were already pulled and stowed away.
Here is a sister ship from 3/28/43:
http://www.303rdbg.com/lc026a.html
And another ship:
I’ll take an educated guess about the nose guns …The early B-17F’s were delivered without any nose armament, this includes the cheek guns and were either modified with the addtion of cheeks guns in the US or in England before the airplane was issued to a combat unit.
I’ve seen at least 7 different set ups for the guns mounted in the plexiglass nose … 1.) no guns at all … 2.) a single offset .30 cal. … 3.) a single .50 cal. and a single .30 cal. both offset … 4.) a single .50 .cal offset … 5.) a single .50 cal. mounted in the upper center of the plexiglass … 6.) 2 single .50.cals off set either side of the center … 7.) A twin mount of .50 cals. mounted on the center line.
The two pictures mentioned here don’t show any guns mounted in the nose piece. The one close up seems to show the dimples molded into the plexiglass for mounting the guns as time permitted. It’s possible this aircraft may not have had any nose guns installed given how early in the bombing campaign it was lost. But that’s just my opinion.
The 2 antenna wires you asking about may have been 3 wires. The references I have show 3 as installed at the factory. The command radio antenna runs from about 3/4’s up the fin, to the radio mast then down to the antenna lead-in on the right side of the radio compartment, just above the the leading edge of the window.
The other 2 antennas were liason radio antennas. One ran from a lead-in aft of the radio room window on the left side to a mount on the left wing, forward of the aft spar. If you’re using the Monogram “G” both of these are on the kit. The other liasion antenna runs from a lead-in located ahead of the left waist opening and running out to a point on the left wing above the flap aft of number one engine. I don’t know the reason why they needed 2 liason antennas, but they are connected to the “Liason Antenna Changeover Switch”.
HTH
Tony H.
B299X, after doing more research, you are partially right. The 303rd BG picked up their 33 Boeing-built F-1’s plus two F-1-DL’s at Kellogg Field, MI after the planes had gone through the Tulsa Modification Center. At Kellogg Field they are seen with the left and right side guns, but the nose cone socket dimples are blocked off with clear plates (from the YouTube 303rd BG video). It seems that no nose guns were mounted til the Spring of 1943. And then it seems when a gun was mounted in the nose, it was in the right dimple and braced. The centerline guns (single and double mounts) were only used on a few aircraft used at the front of the formations as they took up a lot of room (from Roger Freeman’s “The Mighty Eighth” book series). For an example aircraft, I would use “The Eight Ball MK II” seen here on return from the January 27, 1943 mission to Germany:
Anybody know of or have resources on the victory marking on Beats Me!? I need to know the quantities number and types of accurate markings. Thx. Otherwise I’ll leave them off the build.
Check out the mission reports at the 303rd website, and send your question to Gary Moncur, the website adminstrator.
New info on the Beats Me name as it was only on the starboard side:
http://303rdbga.com/c-360-schulstad.html
Bombardier 2Lt Reinaldo Saiz related “I remember when Schulstad came over to me and asked my opinion as to what we should name our ship… I recall that I said “Beats Me” and I suppose the rest of the crew had given the same reply – so it was named “Beats Me.” There was no fancy pin-up girl, etc. but a neat sign “Beats Me” on the right side of the ship beneath the Co-Pilot’s window.” (No aircraft photo available). Beat’s Me was the 11th 303rd BG(H) B-17 lost on a combat mission. Click here to see 1997 Keith Hill painting of “Beats Me” entitled “Last Man Out.”
The photo in the TV documentary has been photoshopped as the name is on the port side and it shows 25 mission marks and 8 planes as kills. Beats Me only had 7 missions to its credit, and you would have to go to the AF Museum or the National Archives to look at the original combat mission reports to see if the crew claimed any kills.
I’ll be using a tiny paint brush to paint Beats Me!? in the style and position seen in the one photo of the man adjusting the starboard gun.
So what does a mission mark look like, a single bomb pointing down?
Thanks for your help.
You seem to know a LOT about B-17s. WHat kind of paint scheme was on the main wheels? The Memphis Belle 1/48 kit come with some fun shapes and colors, but I imagine that was just fro the Belle or her squadron. I’m building a B-17F of Beats Me. Any tips would be great, otherwise I’ll go with weathered grey.
From what what I could see from the 303rd Youtube video, they had white wheel colors. Beats Me was early enough that I think that the crew didn’t have time to spruce it up. Some ships did have painted wheel covers according to the web site.
Still working on this, but close to the end. I got a diagram that shows yet another liason antena on the right side. Were these commonplace in b17Fs. Thanks again.