That’s the difference between aircrew and combat experienced aircrew! Been there! Done that!
A Nam UH1-D Pilot I know says that in the country around 68-69 the ‘maintenance time’ was not always as full as it should have been…due to HQ telling them to keep the birds in the air and last minute missions.
sounds about right.
…but then again I have spoke to others who say HELL NO! …they did not fly with out a full report!
So I wonder if it was just a matter of command or what?
Papa-Echo-64,
I’m not sure of what you mean by “maintenace time was not alwasy as full” and “did not fly with a full report”. I know our Unit kept the best and most experienced people in Maintenace and if it wasn’t cleared to fly by the Maint Test Pilot, it didn’t fly. The line pilots, crew chiefs, and Tech Insp all could Red X and ground a bird. So, I guess the answer to your question is it probably varied Unit to Unit. There was always some sort of deficiency (write ups) on the -13’s that were not items that pertained to safety of flight. Hope that helps.
Thanks…I think your right about ‘unit to unit’
Come on guys, I didn’t think I needed to explain that it was just a joke! I didn’t hear all the Army, Marine, and Navy officers saying anything about them going into battle with their enlisted. I worked with the Air Force Special Ops folks who flew AC-130 Gunships, MH-53J Pave Low III Helos and my niece’s husband was a crewmember with the MC-130 Talons, all of which are manned with enlisted, so yes, I know there are a few USAF enlisted folk who head into battle. However, I do apologize to anyone who really was offended by my comments, but it really was just a joke.
Don
Don
Same joke used in the RAF all the time.
My favourite is an NCO who was once called ‘Sir’ by a young recruit.
He screamed back at the top of his voice ‘‘SIR?, how dare you, I work for a living!’’
If a job has to be done right first time, get an Airman to do it !
That is why I’m heavy artillery and have my feet planted on the ground or in my Paladin.
I knew I couldn’t be the only one who had heard it. And come to think of it, England was the first place I heard it used. Your remark about “getting an airman to do it” reminded me of an exercise we had at RAF Lakenheath. We were sitting in the Harden Avionics Facility when the command came down to select an expendable person to go out for possible lethal radiation exposure checks. A young LT was sitting in the office and made the remark. “That’s why I’m glad I’m an officer.” The Capt asked the LT who he would select to send out. The Lt rattled off, “The lowest ranking Airman.” Without missing a beat, the Capt looked at him and said. LT, the lowest ranking Airman here is trained to maintain the Wings fighting assets and does the majority of all jobs here. If it comes down to it, Lt, “You” are the most expendable person here so I hope you will is in order." The Lt’s attitude change about Airmen from that moment on.
Don
Don,
I realize it was a joke, and didn’t realy mean to send any shots across your bow. It might have been that I just did a recent interview with some local news folks where the topic sort of came up. In this case it was one of our Majors (HH-60 pilot) who set the lady straight that at least in our squadron (CSAR) we all go into battle together.
Please excuse the momentary sensativity (my wife always wants me to get in touch with my sensative side, heh, heh) and keep 'em comin.
Hell…I think I even used the same joke in the NCO club back in NCO Academy.
Back to the topic…in our crew, the FE is always the go to guy as to the condition of the bird. He’s the first one to show up at the aircraft, and the last one to leave (except of course for the maintenance troops).
Salbando
Glad to hear you’re not to upset. I do fully realize the role the enlisted folk do play. And as for PJ’s, These are the guys who go in to get the elite guys, when things go bad. You can’t get much tougher. I got to hang with a few of them while I was TDY in Kuwait. They were a great bunch of guys and told me a lot about what they do and work with, just before they had to killed me. [xx(] My biggest regret was not trying to Fast Rope with them. The were training in the Hanger and had safety harnesses for those who wanted to try, but fear of falling about 40 feet can be a powerful deterrent.[:(]
I also got to go on a check ride on one of the Mh-53s after some engine repairs while TDY in Nevada. I loved it. Even when the Co Pilot was flying it and the FE made the comment to the Pilot, “The Rotors are falling off.” That woke up the pilot, he took control and asked the FE what he meant, all the while, checking gauges. The FE said, "the RPM’s are dropping a little. " The Pilot looked at him and said, “that’s not exactly the same thing Chief!” We continued on to Death Valley where we flew 200 feet below sea level. Unfortunately, the pilot didn’t bring his camera and so we didn’t get a photo of the altimeter. Later on that same TDY I got to go on an actual training mission where I saw things I’d only heard about before. I asked one of the gunners, how we did, the next day and he just laughed and said we got killed about 8 times. It was an TDY I’ll never forget. And even when you think about the only thing holding that helo up is some screws and or a hollow pipe, I never felt any fear. Of course, I never felt any fear with any of the Military crews I flew with. Blind faith I guess.[X-)]
Man, I’m homesick for the flightline now. Gotta go to a military website for a fix. Later.
Don
Oh well, maybe in my next life.[:)]
Don,
I just looked at your profile and your name sounds REALLY familiar. When were you in Kuwait? I’ve spent some quality time over at Jolly Green Acres (KIAP) myself. Yeah, we’ve got some good gear and a great mission but the injuries do pile up (personnaly two broken ankles, broken back, several skull fractures), but that’s part of the job.
As far as all that junk spinning above your head…I try not to think about it too much. But when the FE starts getting animated, the doors are coming back and my knees are in the breeze.[:D]
I was only there for a month in Nov/Dec of 92 I think is was… I remember the months and spending Thanksgiving there, but can’t recall the year. Isn’t that weird. But is was during Southern Watch and the birds were all grounded and marked for a one time Flight due to some rotor modification they were waiting for. If the rotor turned, the bird didn’t fly again. So every 3 days, we’d go out and go trhough PreFlight us to the point of turning rotors. I guess that’s why I got to see the Pararescue guys using/checking out there equipment like I did. They weren’t actually getting out in the field so they just checked it is the hanger. It was also the year that the moon was a total eclipse and with all the smoke debris still in the air, the light from the moon completely disappeared. If you didn’t know where to look, you would miss it. It was just a black rock in the sky. Awesome.
Don[alien]
Speaking of TACP… I spent 6 years and 11 months as a TACP. I joined in 2000, after Survival School in FEB01, it was off to Ft. Riley, then Camp Casey, and finally at Ft. Wainwright were I was one of the first USAF TACP’s to use the M1130 Stryker CV TACP (of which I just purchased an AFV Club kit to, which is how I ended up here doing a search for USAF TACP on this forum…). Went to Iraq with the 172nd Stryker Brigade Combat Team and served in Mosul for a few months, then out west in COP Rawah in the Marine AO with 4th Squadron 14th Cav. Regiment. Yup, all my time in the Air Force with the Army… Mortars, rockets, no sweat, gimme the radio and I’ll get some Hogs in on them (now, if Al Udeid would quit denying the airstrikes…).