I thought they were the same vehicle. Am I correct?
No, they look similar, but they are in fact totally different. Panther F was a 1944 evolutionary development of the original Panther I series, through Panther D, A and G, The F uses a slightly modified Panther G hull, slightly modified 75mm gun in a new turret, but the same Panther G suspension and automotives.
Panther II was actually developed much earlier then than Panther F, at around the same time as the Panther A. It was suppose replace the Panther I series, and to become a true medium tank complement to the Tiger II. Towards this goal, it uses almost the same road wheel, drive wheel and automotives of the Tiger II. It also uses Tiger II transport tracks as its own battle tracks. But its development was cancelled late in 1943 when it became clear that the Panther I was doing quite well and the Panther II wasn’t going to be sufficiently better than the Panther I to justify the effort and delay of a major switch. But Daimler Benz was allowed to complete the hull and automotive portions of the two prototypes under construction at the time of the cancellation. No turret design were ever completed for the Panther II, but the broad outline of the turret envisioned for the Panther II looked somewhat like the Panther F turret. When the war was over, the US army put a standard Panther G turret on the captured prototype Panther II hull and put it on display.
No they are not. The Panther F is basically the G chassis with the F turret, while the II uses the King Tiger chassis.
No, Panther II has a unique chassis that is shorter and norrower than the Tiger’s. It uses King Tiger suspension and drive system, but with one less road wheel on each side. Panther II hull is slightly better protected than Panther I’s, but its cross country performance is much inferior to the original panther’s.
So what tank was the so-called “Schmalturm” developed for? I thought it was developed (originally) for the Panther II.
The Schmalturm on the Panther F was specifically designed for the Panther F. The earlier Panther II was envisioned to carry a turret that is conceptually similar to the Schmalturm, but that turret design never progressed to the hardware stage. Although the Schmalturm on the Panther F looked similar to what was intended for the Panther II, there were a lot of engineering differences, mostly aimed at simplifying production and saving armor steel.
There are two other somewhat similar narrow turrets also being designed at the same time for the follow up to the Panther F. One is basically similar to the Panther F turret, but has provisions for mounting Tiger I’s 56 caliber 88mm gun, the other has a bulged roof and a slightly larger turret ring to enable the Panther I hull to carry Tiger II’s 71 caliber 88mm gun. The second turret also features an autoloader with a 4 round clip.
That second turret would have made Panther one mean medium tank, armed with Tiger II’s long 88mm gun, with the added ability to hit any target 4 times in rapid succession to ensure a total kill.
Thanks to all for the clarification.
Among other differences, the Panther II would have sported the 88 and the Ausf. F retained the 75.
Steve
According to “Germany’s Panther Tank The quest for Combat Supremacy” by Thomas L. Jentz, published by Shiffer - The Panther II was to have 7 roadwheels, the Tiger II was to have 9 so the Panther II had 2 fewer roadwheels on each side. Also, the suspension arms were different between the Panther II and Tiger II although the engine and transmission were to be the same between the two.
And here’s a little trivia for you… did you know that the Tiger II was originally designated the Tiger 3? [:O]
Here is the DML shanghai release of the Panther 2 with the fantasy Scmallturm sporting the 88. The hull suspension is close to the Panther II hull in the PAtton museum. The upper deck is incorrect and basically was tooled from the late G. The Panther II should not have the crew heater tower and other G details that are too numerous to mention:
The model is fitted with the Tiger 2 transport tracks :
Steve
I stand corrected. [:I]
Hey I wouldn’t have known that if it hadn’t been for Jentz’s excellent research in the book I referred to above.
If I were stranded on a desert Island (or in the bedroom while my wife watches her chick flicks) and I could only have one book on the Panther with me, that would be it… I highly recommend it to anyone interested in the Panther and all it’s variants. [:)]
crockett: Nice job, man!
Steve, nice job on the Panther 2! Beautiful! [8D]