I just finished reading Rick Atkinson’s book on the 101 Airborne (Air Assault) in Iraq, and was wondering what you guys think about the future of the attack helicopter’s deep attack after the 11th Aviation Regiment debacle.
Now my kit question. How is the Revell 1/32 as a kit, and as an accurate representation of the ship? Is there a Revell Longbow kit, or is there an AM set for the Longbow (or just for the kit as-is)? I know an English company called Flightpath makes one, but am looking for a good AM set. Thanks.
As for the future of Attack Aviation, it will go on. The 11th AHR debacle taught (re-taught)the Aviation community some valuable lessons.
You can’t make deep attacks over enemy territory in daylight.
You need to have SEAD missions planned and actually use them.
Some of the helicopters need to be doing self SEAD and route security to protect the attack element.
Never underestimate your enemy’s possible ADA capability, any soldier with a weapon can become an ADA system.
Now to the Revell AH-64. I built one a few years back and think it looks pretty good, it looks like an AH-64 A-C model. I have been told that it is based on an early production model and is not to latest standards. It does not build up as a Longbow, the side sponsons are much larger on a Longbow and the radar for the rotor mast is missing to make it an AH-64D radar bird, one out of each 4 has the radar. The kit is really nice, I had no problems with it. It all looks to be there on mine when I compare it to pictures of the actual aircraft and to ones I have seen in the field. I highly recommend it.
The attack is described as being launched at 1:15am, on a very dark night.
How do you get around it? They don’t seem to have figured out how to deal with it. I don’t think any attack helicopter formations launched deep attacks after the 11th’s failure.
Thanks for the good word on the kit. Who uses the A-C models now?
I have recently finished the Revell kit using the Flightpath brass update set. The kit (with some extra work) does build up nicely into an early model Apache. I have considered doing another one in Longbow configuartion, but that would involve a huge amount of work. No mast radar, longer/wider sponsons and a completely different (MANPRINT - for the UK version) ‘glass’ cockpit.
If you are considering the early version as in the box, I can say that the Flightpath set will help considerably. The bulk of the set covers exterior bits and pieces - resin Hellfires (8), Hellfire racks (white metal - 2) and loads of brass bits for the various cable cutters, aerials, disco light (about 20 parts for that !!!), gun parts (although the cable guard framework is best replaced with plastic rod - now there’s a fiddly job!!*)seat belts and one or two interior fittings. Rather than go into everything here, if you have any questions about specific bits of the set, pop a post here.
Larry,
An excellent question, to which I have to admit not knowing the answer! There are many rotorheads visit this site and I am sure someone will be able to provide an answer.
I bought the Revell kit with the intention of doing a conversion to 64D (UK), but since the Flightpath set covered the earlier aircraft, I stuck with that. Having done the kit, I may well revisit the possibility of doing the massive conversion to Longbow. Virtually all of it will have to be scratchbuilt, however…
I am heading towards finishing the Trumpeter Hind at present, and there are another couple of projects waiting, but who knows - in a year perhaps…
If the fielding schedule listed at FAS.org is accurate, just about all active units have the D model by now. Most NG units are just starting to get them. Here is the link to FAS, there is lots of info there. http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ac/ah-64.htm
Ok, here’s my $.02. Firstly, the Karbala debacle was an important lesson learned for attack aviation. The mission was a night mission, deep into enemy territory against the most coordinated air defenses the Iraqis have EVER put up. The Apache did alright there, and the birds held up under an incredible amount of fire. The one that did go down took… you guessed it… an RPG to the tail rotor. If you look closely in the photos of that bird, one tail rotor blade is almost all gone. As an advocate for Close Air Support and Army Attack Aviation and a future Army Aviator myself, I think this will be studied for quite a while.
As for the various models of the Apache, there are still plenty of A models in service. The 101st Airborne has 2 D-model battalions, but the 3-101 Avn still flies their A models. They should be transitioning to D models within the next year. Granted, the A models of today are a distinct improvement over the initial A models fielded in the mid-80s. Laser detectors, chaff/flare dispensers, and wire-strike kits have all been added, not to mention uprated engines.
The National Guard is getting more and more A-model Apaches as well. The unit I’m going to after commissioning is slated to get A Model Apaches within the next few years, so I’m keeping my fingers crossed.
As for the Revell kit, I’ve got 2 building right now. One I’ve updated as a 1/229th ATKHB bird that flew in Afghanistan in 2002. That took a bit of work, but the basic airframe is accurate. It’s been primed and is waiting for paint, decals and weathering now. The second I’m converting to an AH-64D (DWO). That’s been a bit touchier. The Avionics bays had to be completely scratchbuilt, so I’m working on them now. The control panels are different as well, and that took a considerable amount of work too. I’ve already got about 30 hours into it, so I should be able to get it done within the next month or so.
I’m doing a considerable amount of research into the Apache for my next book for Osprey. Should be out next June if all goes well. US Army AH-64 Units of Enduring and Iraqi Freedom.
My current unit is scheduled to receive 8 AH64A’s this year. My unit flew OH58D Kiowa Warriors in Iraq and would have preferred to keep them rather than having one troop 64’s and the other troop 58D’s. Unfortunately we weren’t given a choice about that. [8D]
Personally, I prefer flying the A model 64 to the D model. But to be totally honest I am doing my darnest to stick with the OH58D’s. As for as a flying machine and getting into it that is the one to fly. In one unit during the Iraq war one single OH58D flew more combat hours than all of their AH64’s put together.
What the Army learned at Karbala was that they weren’t at the Fulda Gap any more. Hovering to fire your weapons system in that environment was stupid. The Marines use running fire which the Army used successfully for years but for some unknown reason it was taken out of the POI at Fort Rucker. It has recently been reintroduced based on the mistakes in Iraq.
Rick Atkinson’s book is an excellent read. I knew Col. Cody when I was at Fort Campbell in the late 80’s.