Josh,
I don’t want to sound like I am jabbing at you, but I have been in the same piece of air as those -64’s at night and it actually was rather effective, especially when there was suspended dust, more dust made it more effective. They do stick out like a sore thumb under goggles, but I don’t think there are many of those out there on the other side in this one. On days when there was at least a moderate amount of suspended dust it was pretty effective, again more dust meade it more effective. On clear days there didn’t seem to be any up or down, they just looked differentI do think that the paint job that those Apaches got would not be of much if any benefit to them because of the tactics, techniques and proceedures which the Army uses but I do think that the right gray scheme would be helpfull. I would prefer anything but green because that really sticks out like a sore thumb over here. Now my observations were made using a Mk1 eyeball so take them for what they are.
Most of the camoflage schemes the Army uses today were developed to be used in the European theater. Most of the Army equipment that you see over here is tan with one noteable exception…aircraft. I feel like a bullseye over here. I am sitting in a dark green helicopter that is flying in a sky that is some combination of air and sand over an often barren desert landscape with nothing more that an M60 that is as old as me to shoot back with. I am in favor of anything that lowers the contrast between me and my background and making it more difficult to judge distance and I am glad to see the Army experimenting with something else and I would not be surprised to see some sort of gray become the standard.
Sorry to jump on a soap box there. I guess I just like kicking this stuff around. To get back on the subject, I hope to be able to post a pic or two soon. Whether you think this paint job works or not, it is still kind of neat to see.
Mac
No need to apolize for being right. Color change may be long overdue. Iremember when the Army started using the present color, makes sense for Europe and the threats in the 70-80’s time peroid.
Not much place to hide in the sky take anything you can to help. Take care of that 60, may have been one I used.
Stay safe and come home soon, thanks for your service.
John
helicopters don’t fly, they beat the air into submission
Josh
I saw a 53 last night. It was a pretty clear night and the gray did stick out pretty bad.
As for how the Apaches ended up gray, I have heard a few different versions of the story. One is that they asked for them to be painted that way and the other common one is that when they went to the Marine paint shop, the shop mistakenly thought that they were to be painted similar to the Cobras. Some say that the Army wanted to try it out in theater to begin with. I think that some version of one of the first two is probably right but the Army did decide that they would see how well it worked in the end. I think that the unit did get in a bit of hot water for this because of the added weight and the paint job being off schedule. No matter what though, it does make for an interesting modeling subject.
Mac,
I also heard that the Apache’s went to thier SAO and asked for permission, then they sent them to Cherry Point, and yes I heard that they got into some hot water.
What unit are you in?? and where are you at right now?
There is no doubt that the green does stick out, for the most part though I like the green at night, full moon nights you are going to see any helicopter, but the green does help us in that matter. As far as day, yeah we stick out, no doubt about that, and that is why we fly at 50 ft and 145 knots.
Whats wrong with the M-60’s…LOL
We are supposed to be getting the M-240 1’s from what I hear, around the end of December, just in time to go home. How nice huh???
Josh
Josh,
I’m playing both sides of the border from Kuwait. Do you remember Udairi? I have lived there for the last 9 1/2 months! I think that I would rather have mortar rounds waking me at night and have a decent chow hall.
Did you see last month’s Flight Fax? Some good info on the 240’s. We were told that we would get them in Jul, then Sep, then Oct. Now they say we will get them sometime, but all organic units have priority and aviation units will just get all of the spares for the 60’s to keep what they have going.
As for helo colors, I am in favor of some sort of gray. Take a good look at the site posted on this thread. Some sort of medium to dark gray would work pretty well. I guess that I will just have to sit back and see what the years to come bring.
Hi… Well, I live in Japan, and the JASDF still use the Cobra’s, and I must say that I love thier paint scheme… Why not do what the Japanese have done, and then keep everyone happy… My only suggestion would be to paint the underside “sky grey”… I have just completed a Hasegawa 1/72 version of the Japanese Cobra, and I just love it… Shouldnt be that much harder to adapt the Apache should it?
“Most of the camoflage schemes the Army uses today were developed to be used in the European theater. Most of the Army equipment that you see over here is tan with one noteable exception…aircraft. I feel like a bullseye over here. I am sitting in a dark green helicopter that is flying in a sky that is some combination of air and sand over an often barren desert landscape with nothing more that an M60 that is as old as me to shoot back with.”
That M-60 is as old as you… But it kept our ****** safe, whenever we needed it. Of course, war is more advanced now, and you are not trying to avoid only bullets and RPGs. And hey, the better you stand out, the more target practice you get, right?
“I just have to add this one in, the biggest danger is NOT The enemy and thier missiles and RPG’s, its US. Flying at fast speeds, at low altitudes, and the weather, and lack of power management in the summer months”
I always found RPGs and bullets more dangerous… There’s something scarrier about bullets smacking metal near your head, and RPG’s moving past you, then flying 20 feet over the land. The only time we ever had a problem with our own error (Major problem), was in trying to avoid an RPG on take off, we smashed back to the ground and spilled some people, one of whom broke his arm I belive. But still, that was attributed to the RPG.
Our weapons are holding up pretty well but the mount is essentially the same as the one used on the Huey. At 130+ kts holding that 60 out there on a 6 hr mission gets pretty tiring. We did run into some Brits that showed us a good way to deal with that and they helped us to set up a system that makes it much easier to reload in flight. I plan to include pics of these items and of an aircraft set up for a mission in a walkaround when I get home. Let me know of other items that y’all would like included so I can be sure to get pics.
By the way, if you have fond memories of the M60, you would be amazed to see the M240. Cases eject out the bottom and you can select the rate of fire from 600 to 1200 round per minute.
I would like to see some pictures of that. Most of the missons we flew did not require a ton of use on the M-60, so holding it was not a problem. But I do remember a couple of times having to keep it going for awhile.
What do you fly now?
Mike
Speaking of Apache Paint, I just Helo Drabbed my Revell A model today. Looks pretty good. I primed it with overall black, underhighlighted panel and rivet lines with desert tan and then sprayed overall Helo Drab. Now for the detail painting and a few other odds and ends and then a couple coats of Future, decals, and the final dullcote layers. I’m almost done with this one!
Gimme a week. My girlfriend will be up here next Friday and she’s bringing her digital camera. It is infinitely better than mine! In the meantime, I’ll try to finish as much of “Devil’s Dance” as I can!
I hear ya on that one! I actually got some time to work on it tonight, so I painted the sharkmouth, inked “Devil’s Dance” on the doghouse (both sides) and did an oil wash over the entire bird. Its looking pretty cool right now. Oh, and I did the ALQ-144 tonight as well. Twix wrappers work wonders! I’m going to dry brush it next to bring out some raised detail, and then I’ll start on the sensor turret. Should be a good night!
Wow… I had a modelling night/morning. Stayed up until 0500 working on the bird. Rotor hub has been detailed, laser detectors finished, TADS optics inserted… I’m tired! I’ve gotta detail the cannon now that the wire-strike frame is dry. Have to finish painting the sharkmouth on the left side (it came out a little light), add the tail rotor and proper detail, finish the AGM-114Ks and then add a single one to each missile rack.
Then I’ve just gotta future it, decal it, dull cote it, and I’m DONE!
I’m excited, its been a LOOOONG time since I finished a model!
I can’t wait to check out the Apache, Jon. [^] Sounds like you have a definite winner in the making. Oh, I started some subassemblies on my subject for the upcoming Attack Helicopter Group Build. I’m going to hold off revealing what it is until I get a little further into it (it’s a motivation thing- [8D])
Ok, here’s the first photo. Its kinda blurry because I couldn’t wait until next week and shot it with my own crappy digital camera. It still needs future, decals and a few other things, but it has come a long way. Lemme know what you think!
Wow, the grey looks really white and blurry in this pic! Oh well, detail will be here next week!
