I was looking through Squadron/Signal Publications’ “Air Force Colors: Volume 3” last night and was wondering if anyone has built one of the ten (or so) Hawaiian Air Depot B-17E’s with the four color camo pattern (Sea Green, Rust Brown, and Sand over the original OD finish)?
I got my hands full with B-17s in Blue.
Are those the 24 or so Navy PB-1s and PB-1Ws used for patrol and air-sea rescue and anti-submarine duty at the end of WWII you are talking about Swanny? They were all ex-USAAF planes painted Dark Sea Blue, right?
Those are the ones, yes indeed.
I think you’ll find there’s more like 20 . . . but no more than two dozen. That’s the B-17Es of course, and doesn’t include B-17Cs or B-17Ds with the Hawaiian Air Depot scheme.
Most of the prints of the John Ford Midway film are very badly degraded, particularly the versions available on the internet, so it’s very hard to be sure exactly what the colors were.
This is an 11 year old thread. I don’t think most of these guys post anymore
Is this from The Steve Birdsall, aircraft researcher extraordinaire?
Yes, and thanks for the kind words, deserved or otherwise.
I’ve got an article about the eight B-17Es that arrived over Hawaii during the 7 December 1941 Pearl Harbor attacks.in the next issue of Aviation History that might be of interest, although there are still questions to be answered…
All eight were quickly reassigned to Hawaiian Air Force squadrons and overpainted with that unique multi-colored camouflage scheme to protect them on the ground.
Initially used for patrol work and training, they ultimately ranged far and wide, serving in the 5th, 7th and 13th Air Forces in the South and Southwest Pacific theaters.
When I saw that magazine at Barnes & Nobles recently, I couldn’t resist picking it up. A very interesting article though. They were painted in shades of rust, sand, blue-gray, and faded olive drab and remnants of dark olive drab. No two B-17 are the same.
Someone did do a B-17 in similar scheme but I can’t remember if it was here or not.
Thank you, Steve. I was going to email AH about such a great article. I did notice that 41-2433 has a ball turret in 1943. Was that one pirated from a later E or F model and installed in the field instead of the remote turret, or at HAD? As an aside, I think a great article for AH would be about two aircraft heroes of the Aleutian war, B-17B 38-0215, “Old Seventy” (as it was known from Brian Garfield’s book, the only truly combat B-17B); and the LB-30 AL-613, which returned to Consolidated in 1943 to be rebuilt as a C-87 and used until scrapped at Kingman. I have a 1/72 Academy B-24D that is in the process of being converted to AL-613, but had been at a standstill when I found out that I can get a Magna Models Liberator MK I conversion kit for it.
What I found interesting was that B-17 Miss Fit was a “jinx plane” - having gone so many bad luck incidents. Some were repaired so many times, they grabbed what ever they could find off other Fortresses nearby - tail rubber, wing sections, etc… you name it. They got them fly ready by the next day. That issues is worth picking up due to a couple more interesting B-17 related articles. Heck there’s even one about the Navy/Marines B-25 Mitchell being restored to flying condition. Gotta do a kit on that one. :))
This is one of those threads that I am very happy to see back at the top. I missed it.
I am thinking one of those birds would be so much fun to build up.
Going to have to research a bit more.
Joe
There is a side bar in the Pearl Harbor B-17 article how they described a B-17 Fortress getting in a dogfight… yes, you read that right… a dogfight with a Japanese Kawanishi H6K Mavis floatplane while on a anti-submarine mission.
Yeah, when I saw the original post dates, I thought, “Augh! Zombie post!” [:D] But it doesn’t hurt to revive it. It looks like some folks are interested.
For me, I haven’t built one, yet, but I have a Revell B-17F kit set aside to do one, as one of the B-17s deployed to Midway for the battle. I collected images a couple of years ago, for references. Han von Hammer (speaking of names from the forum’s past) was very helpful with some images of his own. Most of my photographic references are from John Ford’s footage, shot before and during the attack on the island itself.
Thanks for the reference! I’m going to have to pick this one up.
Thanks for flogging the issue Steve! Didn’t know this thread was there. 434 is finished and as soon as the photos are set the model column will hit the website. It’s been quite the project. Next kit is a nice solid single color!
Many thanks to Steve for the help and advice. Not sure how ‘cool’ it is to post a link to another magazine so I’ll just say, feel free to click over to the Aviation History section of the HistoryNet website. That issues model review is A B-17E conversion and an attempt at the HAD scheme. It’s not perfect, but I was really challenged, frustrated, and at the end of the day… had fun. I do believe that having fun, even in between all that frustration, is a lot of what any hobby should be. Thanks.
Mr. Aceto, you need to read a primer on the USAAC/USAAF/USAF serials. I would suggest Joe Baugher’s excellent website. Another is Dana Bell’s Air Force Colors, vol. 1. With the 12434 serial, the 4 doesn’t stand for when it was built. The 4 is dropped off and stands for the Fiscal Year of 1941 of which the time of budgetary appropriations started on July 1 of the previous year, 1940 to June 30 1941. The money was appropriated by Congress to allow the USAAF to buy the B-17E from Boeing. Even today, the USAF still uses the fiscal year designator system which was started in 1919 for all pieces of equipment, from planes to bulldozers. With using an F to build an E, you do know that you must lengthen the engine cowlings to match those of an E. The F cowlings were shortened to allow paddle blade prop feathering due to the wider blades. That is why Bill Koster’s E model conversion has that already factored in with using an F or G as a base.
Thanks, I do appreciate the correction. School I appreciate the fact you read the piece. I actually asked our research director about the serial. I should have stuck with Dana’s book. I remembered that currently the USAF system is based on the budget but i could have sworn it was different then. Again, should have stuck with Dana’s book. I’ll happily make the change.
As for the cowling … I’ll be honest. I knew but decided for time and hassle I’d let that one go. I freely admit what I thought was going to be just an average build got out of control a little. I was amazed that at the darned thing didn’t get thrown against the wall.
At the end of the day… It was sorta fun. I’ll continue to look at it through TLAR goggles I suppose. Frustration aside… It’s done. The next one is a nice solid black. I say that with a huge sigh of relief!
Thanks for the crit, I do appreciate it.
Yes, after Midway the older B-17Es weren’t really considered “combat ready” until those remote turrets were replaced . . . I’m trying to find Hawaiian Air Depot records to confirm it, but I believe the modifications were made there some time after about July 1942.