AM Parts. Why? A Mild Hammer-Rant

Modeling Subjects Armor
1

Ok, I’ve been mulling this around for a while, and even spoken out on it few times, but it’s getting kinda hard to understand, and way over the top, in my humble opinion.

I’m confused about the plethora of after-market parts used by modelers these days. It seems that entire process of scratch-building and super-detailing has gone out the window and more and more folks are resorting to letting someone else do the wok for them… I can understand that some don’t feel they have the skills to scratch-build, but then why would they need to when you can just pop into the LHS and scoop up a hundred dollars worth of stuff to glue onto the kit?

Metal gun barrels, brass ammo cans, photo-etched screens, and OMfreakin’G photo-etched WELDS!.. Resin this and that everywhere…

I have seen several builds that look pretty good with a gun tube that you can see the lands and grooves in, in large-bore guns anyway, but I don’t get it… Why spend 15-20 dollars on a metal casting that you could easily do the same thing with using a little stretched sprue and liquid cement on the kit barrel? Is it gettin’ too much to sand a seam off the tube halves? I can understand after-market parts that correct a turret or something along those lines, then again, some putty and a little elbow grease can do the same thing to a turret, if it’s THAT important to ya… I also get it when the kit’s parts are missing, it’s nice to have a back-up, but then, that’s why I have a spares box and can use casting resin… I personally spent about the same amount of money in buying the tools that allow me scratchbuild parts as some guys spend in after-market parts for ONE build… Yet these are very same guys that will insist you buy a compressor for your airbrush instead of using airbrush propellant because it’s too expensive at 13 bucks a can, so I know that they too, are budget-conscious at imes… I don’t get it…

Now, the latest issue of FSM had a tip about using cat-whiskers on a kit for antennaes or something like that, and that’s pretty good thinking (although I saw the same tip in Military Modeler about twenty years ago) and use of a different kind of “after-market”…heh… I see people absolutely swoon over a buncha brass on a kit, but after it’s painted, their isn’t a lot of difference… As a community, I feel that the need to learn to scratch-build has gone (or ir going, at least) the way of the Dodo. This isn’t right, folks…

We need to take our hobby back from the pegboard full of plastic bags in the LHS… I’m serious about this. Scratch-building may be tedious, even daunting, but it’s NOT hard… It just takes some imagination, developing an eye for “seeing miniature”, and a bit of time and practice… If the parts you make aren’t right, do 'em over until you get it right. That’s the way you learn what works and what doesn’t. A lot of the latter at first, true, but that too will pass… Thinking outside the box is what you have to do, literally, but don’t “think outside the box and into a bag”…

Scratch-building is becoming a dying art, I fear, and the lack of it is rearing it’s ugly head more and more in competitions. I know that there are literally dozens of books and articles out there, so why aren’t we using them? Is it the typical case of “instant gratification” that haunts the mind-set of builders? Gotta have right now and right the first time, every time? Nobody builds an award-winner first time outta the chute with scratch-building, but that’s the point. Crawl, wlk, run… Seems everyone wants to win the 100-meter dash without ever having got off the couch until the day of the meet. I don’t believe for a second that someone who can turn out a great kit with all the brass and resin can’t make a gun tube out of telescoping brass tube, some putty, and chuck it in a Dremel to sand it down. Making a muzzle brake out of strip styrene is only slightly more time-consuming as well… But imagine the pride in your work when you say, “yeah, I made that 105 tube m’self.”.

Don’t get me wrong, I ain’t hackin’ on anyone (well, maybe a bit), but I would like know what’s so great about using someone else’s work on your kit, and why do folks always “ooh & ahh” over it? Also why do judges pass over a fine build with well-executed scratch-built and hang the ribbon on the guy’s tank with 100 dollars of somebody else’s parts? If it would penalize you for using commercial AM parts in a competition, would you still do it or would you dig into the spares box?

Someone clue me in…

2

To take your post to its logical conclusion,why buy a kit? Just scratch build your own.Just a thought from someone who likes aftermarket stuff.Done now.Have to go attach some Aber pe and a Lionroar brass barrel to a storebought model.

3

Not much of an answer, Ted… But thanks fer playin’…

4

Hans, I suppose the best way for me to explain myself in these regards is that I can probably do it just as well as they can, only not nearly as quick. At 51 and with eyesight heading south, a full-time job, a wife I love spending time with, and a house to look after, for me, time has become something of a factor while the need to prove my abilities to myself has dwindled.

Still, a well-thought out post on your part and definitely worth pondering.

5

So time and eyesight are issues… Good answer, that helps a lot… Can’t say the eyesight factor isn’t an issue with me either, lol… Had to resort 2x readers m’self… Hate gettin’ old…

6

Right now I’m using 2.5’s plus an optivisor. [;)]

7

I agree that scratchbuilding is a dying art. I don’t use a whole lot of AM on my armor models either. I like to scratch what I need. PE and resin are the latest trends. Some people feel that a model has to have them as well. Many are not mastering basic modeling skills either. I have seen models bristleing w/PE, metal barrel, and resin parts, but has basic construction mistakes. They are fawned over like new born babes though.

I don’t worry about it really. I get more enjoyment out of scratch-building parts myself and will continue to do so.

8

Unfortunately the magazines and books support the practice of using AM accessories to a large degree. Not really surprising considering that the magazines receive advertising revenue from these companies. Or that the writers of the Osprey modelling books receive free AM sets so they can showcase them in that series.

It’s actually a pleasure for me to track down research material on obscure planes or AFVs. Part of the exercise is visualizing how I am going to construct certain features on a kit. I’ve been hoarding vac form kits for that very reason. The high tech kits of the same subjects will be sold off because I can satisfy myself with a more labor intensive replacement. It is also infuriating for me to spend big bucks on one of the new wonder kits and then read about all of its flaws in a magazine. I’d rather sink money into reference materials that can be re-used rather than stack up piles of overpriced photoetched brass.

Perhaps if more of us start buying less expensive alternatives the companies will take notice ( as Eduard has done ) and offer a more reasonable product. There’s little difference between their premium kits and the weekend versions after the fuselage halves have been glued together.

9

Hans, I’ll chime in on this one.

I’ve never been good at scratchbuilding. I once scratch-converted an SdKfz. 251 ausf. C to an ausf. D using Evergreen sheet styrene, but that project finished its short life as a test subject for my first airbrush. The conversion entailed scratchbuilding more or less the back half of the vehicle, and it looked like…well, I don’t know what it looked like. But it didn’t look like it was supposed to look.

When you buy an older Tamiya or Italeri kit, the clamps around the pioneer tools look terrible (generally speaking, of course - there are exceptions). I feel like, IF I want to upgrade the level of detail on those parts, then buying a good PE set is perfectly appropriate. It’s too much to ask, to expect me to be able to scratchbuild those little tiny handles and stuff.

But it sounds like you may be underestimating the amount of fine detail work involved in a full set of PE. It’s not a matter of just buying it and gluing it on.

It can be taken too far, in some people’s estimation. But at the same time, isn’t that up to the person building that model? I mean, I don’t want to buy a resin tarp for $20 when I could make one with a piece of paper and five extra minutes. BUT, you’ve never seen one of those two-piece main gun barrels after I get through sanding it. Not pretty. Square gun barrels tend to detract from the quality of a build, I think.

Plus, if you look at some of the resin stuff that’s out there, I just like the way it looks. If I feel the price is reasonable, and if I’m lucky enough to find it in stock somewhere, then why not? For example, I love Verlinden jerrycans. I don’t know why, I just do. Better detail than the old Tamiya ones, and I’m not about to scratchbuild 30 jerrycans for a Panzer III.

~J

10

I have to agree with hans on this.

I myself have only purcased one after market part, it was this

It was a nice piece so I purchased it, but I think that is a totally different story (although I like the store I got it from www.mechaskunk.com because the majority of their stock (besides some metal replacement parts for like beam sabers, and shoulder spikes (scifi and anime shop) all their AM stuff is for scratch building and modding your kits.

I look at shops that sell Scale armor AM parts and im like… Why do you need to get a thing FULL of brass pieces to replace what came with the kit. some times I cant even tell the difference.

I see things like resin stowage kits and sandbags and such, I used crappy butt italiari sand bags on my KV-2 and they worked great, didnt need no fancy resin stuff.

As far as the metal barrels, im on the fence about them (I approve if the kit itself comes with it) but I have a hard time getting rid of the seams on round things (especially things like on a patton blazer, where it isnt a smooth round tube but has details). But for the majority AM parts are lazy.

As bad as this is going to sound though, I do sort of agree with the jerk butt that posted earlier. There are alot of people who scratch build entire kits (of which there are kits already) instead of buying the kit. Buying a plastic kit is a step of lazyness as well, we just dont acnoledge it.

11

I came back to the hobby almost 2 years ago, this whole AM thing is completely new to me. couple thoughts:

at certain scales, some structures just cannot be replicated at scale using plastic. I have in mind railings and radar assemblies in 700 scale ships. I guess another example would be some AFV screens, but you can probably find a fascimile of that in a hardware store? For certain builds, the use of PE AMs is a must if you want key components to look “scale” correct.

the “craft”. I fully understand the whole time/eye issue (same here!) but I refuse to buy an AM barrel until/unless Im capable of gluing/sanding the old Tamiya ones so they look good. I rather learn the CRAFT of building… on the other hand, maybe someone who already is experienced in that particular skill rather spend one hour painting/gluing rather than going round 'n round sanding a tube.

Finally, I am GLAD we have such plethora of PE/AMs since it gives modellers more choices of what/how to build. I like the “Premium” kit idea, in which you can choose what to add to your build.

I do wish there was a market for “plans”; that is, you buy the plans/instructions of WHAT to scratchbuild, dimensions, so on (like a PE set of instructions?), then go and build the stuff yourself. Yes, I can figure this out on my own… but I do research for a living and this is my hobby; I like reading about what I build but cant/wont spend 30 hours looking for references. I rather peel my eyes off the screen/paper and putz in the workbench.

just my two sprues worth

12

Better detail and in some instances, accuracy. Basically for those most interested in the subject material more than just “building a kit”. Rifling in the barrel, fenders that are at scale thickness and items impossible to scratch build that the manufacturer left out on account of a cost measure.

I’m not an expert in this field, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn last week and these things came to mind.

13

Personally I love to scratch build, as I did on this 1/25th Tamiya Tiger Interior. Balsa, plasticard, and even modified PE, etc. But, I would challenge anyone to replicate a German AFV tool clamp in 1/35th. I buy these. Also, when PE comes in a kit, isn’t it just another part?

There is no difference IMHO between a brass piece, a resin piece and a plastic piece when building a model. It is a personal decision based on cost whether to enhance by purchasing AM.

Your topic has appeared before, and hundreds of us have chimed in waxing fantastic about the merits of aftermarket.

Bottom line, it enhances the hobby commercially. I modeled in a PE free environment 30 years ago…beleive me, the world is a better place with AM accesories in my opinion.

regards,

Steve

14

I haven’t purchased any AM parts (including PE), don’t particularly see the need, and don’t intend to start. None of the AM/PE stuff was available when I began building, so I was “brought up” without it. If I wanted it, I scratched it. Still do. Probably always will. I do not compete. When I build, the only person I have to please is me.

Nothing in FineScale these days is built out of the box. Every article has a litany of the AM parts purchased for the kit. We are supposed to be impressed.

[8-]

15

Guess I should clarify… I’m talking about scratchbuilding details and super-details, not entire models…

A large portion of my beef is that more modelers are demanding more and more detail in the kits, and this is, in a large part, driving the kit prices to ridiculous levels… With the AM parts out there, there’s a large market for them, and the kit makers know that, so they figure that if they include as much detail as posible, they’ll be able to snag a large portion of that market as well, since they can add the detals, stop modlers from buying AM parts, and then jack their kit prices up accordingly… This is just a theory now, remeber that…

Case in point. I recently aquired Tamiya’s new StuG III. Come with phot-tched parts and an aluminum gun barrel… Now first off, lemme tell ya that I wouldn’t have considered buying it for the marked price of 44.00… Would have just snorted and said, “uh-uh”… But it was a t Hobby Lobby, and I had a 40% off coupon, so that made it a practical buy, IMHO…

According to the box it has a rifled barrel and when I opened it, I found the if it it IS rifled, I have to take their word on it, because a 37mm gun is SMALL… The gun tube is all of 12.5 cm long ya know… I’m sure I have eyeglass screws around here bigger than that… And he rest of the detail parts, well, other than the screens, I don’t see what real difference they make. Were the pioneer tools P/E or such, It’d make more sense to me… I can also see the higher price for a complete interior, but honestly, why? Isn’t gonna do much good unless you plan on building it to come apart…

Overall, it seems that the kit manufacturers are tryin’ to re-invent the wheel every couple of years…

But there are other considerations as well… I recently aquired two Italeri M7 Priets on Ebay from the same seller, one kit included a P/E set… Upon examination of the P/E, I noticed that the stowage box screens were done in brass, and nicely too… But the cost of the P/E set was more that the kit’s retail price (the stickers were still on them). Earlier, I had picked up a package of fine brass mesh at Hobby Lobby, over in the scrapbook area, a package of fine brass mesh used for making mesh scrapbook and photo album covers… There’s enough brass in that pack to build dozens of intake screens and stowage cages, and it cost 12.00… About six square feet of screen, to be exact…

That’s my point, I guess, or least part of it… Maybe we’re all too lazy to look outside the “normal” areas of interest to find material to build with… If we all went farther into building from scratch, we could drive these ridiculous prices down, since the maker’s would realize that we’re not trapped into buying their stuff if they get out of hand, that we’re perfectly capable of “spreading the wealth”…

Another thing… I recently was able to aquire a Mattel Vac-U-Form from Ebay as well… I alway liked to vac-form aircraft canopies with that thing, but my original one disappered in a move some 20 years ago, and I never saw another one until Ebay… Add to it that I can still get the plastic for the vac-u-form at really good prices, I can turn out vac-formed canopies for a few cents, rather than hope the LHS has a canopy I need in a bag on the pegboard… A rare occurance, since the vacs are seldom for the kits I buy… Just the latest and greatest kits, it seems. But I’d rather spend the money it takes to buy P/E and resin parts for two or three kits and buy the tools I need to make parts for EVREY kit I buy at the bench… Again, I think the companies would notice…

Now don’t anyone get their noses outta joint, I’m just spit-ballin’ here… Those that pay attention my posts know that I’m a notorius skin-flint and will squeeze nickels so hard Jefferson’s nose will bleed… I don’t even buy decal set, since I can get a pint of white vinegar for 99 cents that works just as well… I don’t buy zimmerit kits, that’s what they make putty and saw-blades for… A garage sale sign has more sheet styrene for less money than Evergreen sells, CD and cassette cases yield the thicker stuff if you don’t want to laminate, and a foot of hemp rope will yield ten times the "tall grass’ than any bag of Woodland Scenics stuff will for a fraction of the price… I bought a 1/48th scale Eduard PSP base, not for displaying a model, since it’s too small for even a P-51 to sit on it without any part of the plane over-hanging the edges, but it works great for making as much as you ned by laying down a piece heavy foil and burnishing it, or using it to make a male mold to cast as many sections as you want in plaster…

P/E and other metal/resin parts have their uses, and I can buy off on some of it, some of it’s even required for certain applications and builds, but one shouldn’t become dependent on it for every build either… Bottom line, I think, is that we, as a group, can get these kit prices down if we worked harder on scratching from “non traditional” material sources… We’re supposed to drive the market, not the other way around… Ain’t we?

Of course, that’s just my opinion, I could be wrong…

16

I tried scratch building. Soon came to the conclusion that I just don’t have the “eye” or the skills for it. My attempts at scratch building mostly came out looking like a pre-schooler’s craft project. When I went to shows and saw the magnificent scratch built models on display, I felt even more inadequate and began to wonder if I should look for another hobby. Eventually, these setbacks brought me to the realization that I’m a better assembler than a builder. Assembling kits helps me relax, and in the process, connect with historical events on a personal level. If somebody else provides a product that makes this process easier and thus more satisfying, then I’m all for it. I don’t much care what others think of the completed model. Ultimately, it’s a simply a matter of accepting one’s limitations and working within them. I suppose we’re all in this hobby for our own reasons. Those are mine.

17

One: This is a hobby. Hobbies are, by nature, outlets for discretionary income. If you can afford it and want it, buy it. Consider cycling. You can get a Wal[censored]Mart bike for about a hundred bucks. You can get a seat for 4 times that at Performance Bike.

Two: Scratchbuilt vs. AM vs. OOB. I attend a lot of shows (well not as many as before, since several have gone away) and judge at most. Where there is an OOB class, it’s quite common in aircraft and armor for the winner of the OOb award to also take a place award.

Three: It’s your money and time. Enjoy it. And don’t worry what others do with theirs.

18

Like another poster said, AM parts save me precious modelling time. For instance, some of my favorite AM parts are Tiger Model Designs’ resin Sherman hatches and Formations Models resin US pioneer tools. Could I super detail them for every project? Yep. But I’d rather be researching or adding weld seams or rivets.

As for “Also why do judges pass over a fine build with well-executed scratch-built and hang the ribbon on the guy’s tank with 100 dollars of somebody else’s parts?” that’s your perception. Frankly in most contests, the more the modeller attempts, the more he can trip himself up. I judge all the time and the amount of AM is not taken into account. If the hatch is askew, he’ll get knocked whether it was a resin super detailed replacement part or the kit part.

Often the judges have the luxury of really looking deeply into the kits to compare. When it comes to the top ones, ususally it is very minor shades that make the 1-2-3 ranking. Under IPMS rules, basic finish and construction are the main consideration.

But like another poster said, this is a hobby. And I enjoy adding PE and resin parts when needed. I enjoy putting my putty weld seams and styrene rivets when needed. I’ll get the uber detailed ABER barrel when I like its look.

And I (and usually my audience) are happy. Do I mind scratchbuilding? Not at all.

But AM has many utilities.

19

I have a DML Marder II that’s been on my bench for, lessee, a year come Thanksgiving week. I have gone with Lion Roar clamps and bought a set of Bronco ‘workable’ track links that turned out great, but that’s it for me. All other extras have been scratched and I have replaced some deficient kit parts with home-made ones (that coolant transfer hose, fer example). I, too, suffer from the 50+ eyesight, for which I compensate with 3.5 readers behind 2.75x OptiVisor lenses, and I also seem to have less time now than I did when my kids were little and underfoot. Go figure. So I suppose I have to agree with both those who use AM stuff to make the most of time constraints and save w&t on their eyes, but I also agree that it’s your time and your money to do with as you please. I don’t compete, tho I’m a little anal and will worry over a particular detail for weeks. And I agree that half the fun is scratching up details and add-ons, leaving me a little extra money for beer- my other hobby.

It does seem (to me) that when you get to the point that you have invested well over $100 in kit and AM stuff alone, never mind the tools and consumables that get amortized over several kits, well, it’s getting to be more work and less hobby. Just one man’s opinion. And when you get as seriously twisted, crazed and obssessed as golfers, you need to seek professional help.

When it stops being fun, I stop modeling. I guess it depends on your particular definition of fun.

20

LMFAO!! Ha ha! [(-D] I gotta admit, I luaghed right out loud when I read this! Good on, Jeff! [#toast]