I know that sounds like a silly question, but to me trying to hide an aircraft by painting a certain color sounds silly.
Let’s consider the green camos on say a VN era Thud. In the air, the camo is useless. So, is it’s purpose to help hide it while it’s on the ground? I can’t imagine an enemy pilot NOT being able to see it. Even if it is camoed. If he can’t, maybe he shouldn’t be flying anyway.
What about the lizard camo on the A-10? It’s camoed on the top and bottom. Is that in case the aircraft lands upside down?
What about no camo? The USAF bare metal aircraft? Why were they not painted at all?
What about the newer low viz schemes?
Not trying to be a pain, but for as long as I’ve been into aircraft, I could never understand why they went to great extreams to paint these aircraft this way when, in reality, it can’t possibly help that much.
Actually, you’re a bit off the mark when you say it doesn’t help much (no offence intended). When the aircraft is seen from above (against the ground) by another, then ground camo can be very effective.
Similarly the low vis schemes all cause the aircraft to blend into the sky when seen from a distance. Try picking out any light colored aircraft against the sky and you’ll see what I mean.
Not painting aircraft at all was one way of reducing weight and cost, but at the expense of being visible when the sun reflected off your airframe.
Regards,
Bruce
Actually, my local guard base has A-10 that were originally painted with the Euro 1 “Lizard” scheme. At a distance they were very difficult to see against the green foliage background. Often only the glint of light off the canopy revealed where a plane was. These planes were recently painted in the standard A-10 gray low-vis scheme and at a recent airshow I was surprised to find that they were much more difficult to see in the air on an overcast day, blending into the clouds very well. These schemes worked in my case. Of course I wasn’t planning on shooting them either!
Ok, all your point make sense. But if you want to hide an aircraft from a distance, wouldn’t you think it would not be required to paint it several colors? In this case, I can understand the low viz schemes…the multi-colored camoes I still don’t quite understand.
You must also consider a flight deck and visualizing planes from the air over the ocean. Quite tough. Throw in a winter scheme in Leningrad theatre and it all makes sense.
Bones-coa hi,
take a look at this link; if you don’t see a pic of an me 109 in desert camo, go to the menu on the left of the link and click “articles”, then “in colour” and then “mediterranean”…you’ll be amazed!![:0]
also painting them helps seal joints and fight corrosion. A dark color an top reflecting sunlight would appear lighter than the same color on the bottom in shade. A Canadian pilot told me his a/c would disappear from sight at about 5 miles. And you can close that in no time.
Conversely, the unpainted planes in WWII were meant to get the attention of the enemy! Paint can add several hundred pounds to an airplane, so taking off the paint helped with performance as well. I read a quote from a WWII U.S. fighter pilot where he stated that they wanted their planes shiny and colorful because they wanted the Germans to come up and take them on.
Wow…ok, nmayhew…that is pretty amazing! I’ll give it that!
I don’t want anyone to think that I believe it doesn’t work at all, it just seems like most isn’t required. I’ll also agree that some look real cool and, in fact, I prefer modeling camo aircraft over any others. My favorite happens to be the A-10 lizard job…or even better, the A-10 Peanut job.
Maybe we have hit on this point a bit much as you have already seen the Bf-109 pic…which is pretty cool, I haven’t seen that one before. As for why to use multi-colored schemes, it is mostly to break up the image of the aricraft similar to the way camos work on infantry uniforms. The idea is to hide the hard edges that the eye easily recognizes. The human eye could more easily pick up say, the dark outline of an F-4 agains the varius colors of the jungle below, but if the outline of the aircraft didn’t quite look as solid, it would be harder to locate. The more irregular the shape, the harder it will be to pick out.
It is pretty clear why some paint schemes use a lighter color for the bottom of the aircraft, to make it blend better with the bright sky. However, as you noted the A-10 was usually painted with a dark woodland camo on the bottom as well. I think that probably had to do with its intended operating environment. The A-10 was expected to fly low level through the hill and mountains of Europe. That would place the aircraft below the mountain tops and possibly below ground observers and if the airplane were to be banking and turning in the mountains, a white (or grey) underside would likely stand out against the hillsides. SO instead they paint the bottom green and when the plane banks it is still hard to see against the forest. Of course the tactics have changed since then and some A-10s are in the grey paint scheme. Now that tactics have been using hte A-10 at higher altitudes and diving attacks in the open desert (no point in using open ground for cover) the grey helps blend into the sky better.
Well, I guess that is probably more than you needed to know, but I’m done now [:p]
[:)]
Hey Bones;
Well Low Vis camo scheme of the greys was for the airplane at alitude because of the whiteness of the air and the blue sky the best way to HIDE something is to color it grey and because the human eye can only distingush a limited number of shades of grey it basicly hide the plane very well, and most Air Forces (even the Navys) went this color, the US Navy did a major research into the best pain schemes for their plane when they wanted to change from the Gull Grey & Gloss White scheme to low vis and they pretty much set the standard for the colors, but I know the low vis is very boring but it’s the best way to hide your plane from the ground pounders & other pilots who want to shoot you down, also here’s something I just read in the AF Time that the USAF is thinking about changing the paint scheme of the F-117’s Flat Black to the grey’s
Okay, i’m probably just being silly, but what’s the point of hinding the aircraft when you still see a trio of white AGM-65 Mavericks flying in close formation… what i mean is if they spent all that money on paint for the aircraft camo, why not camo the weapon stores as well? [:p]
The way I see it the color of an A-10 is inconsequential, because by the time you see that plane it is already too late for you. Especially those poor guys in tanks. Those 30mm depleted uranium rounds show no mercy to armor. [xx(]
hello gentlemen,
right were to start, low vis greys, the idea behind this colour is to confuse the eye for a few seconds, in a dogfight that is the diference between life and death, they were not meant to be looked at for a long period, no matter what colour, if you look long enough you will see it.
ground camouflage, originaly this was to hide the aircraft from sight, either from above or on the ground, remember they used to disperes aircraft in trees.
if you are flying low level, the same applys as said about the greys, remember it is all about split second timing.
as for the A10, when they were stationed in the UK, there was not a better sight than to watch two A10’s playing low level, and i mean low level, or to go to Donna Nook bombing range to watch them perform. fantastic
The newest thinking on air cammo is to have panels that light up to the exact ambient light in the sky. A plane with this is nearly invisible, There is a new experimental plane called the bird of prey, I think it’s Lockheed that’s making it, that has this feature. This should make the plane nearly invisible to see for a while in the air.
I don’t guess that it really matters though, as we have awacs and very long range radar and missiles, most hostile pilots wouldn’t get the opportunity to see the cammo on the plane that shot them down anyway, it would still be 60 miles away.
Hey Shrikes;
well the AGM-64’s I was around in Iraq where dark grey ( Gunship Grey ) or med-green we never had the old white ones there and if there where the Ammo troops painted them to offset the colors so they where not so reflective
The Boeing BoP is a stealth testbed, painted gray. It doesn’t have any lights like you mention on it. I’ve seen that particular trick demonstrated on ground vehicles, but nobody’s ever tried putting lights all over the outside of an airplane, it’d add too much weight and destroy the aerodynamics.