AFV M102 Questions

Modeling Subjects Armor
1

hey guys,

Im getting back into the swing of things after taking a few years off from the hobby. As you can tell from the title, I have AFV’s 1/35 scale M102 and for the most part its going together pretty good. I do have a huge issue that I am not sure how to fix. The tail roller has a huge garrish seam line in it and Im not to sure how to get rid of it without screwing up the detail. So my question to all you artillery guys is this, do those things fill up with mud as the piece is moved? Im putting it in Hobby Fans gun pit and am thinking that may be a clever way to hide the seam. Also, how badly do these get weathered? It will be in the Vietnam era and Im not to familiar with that time frame. I saw guns around camp when I was in Iraq and it was all very well maintained as all modern US armor is. So I thought that I would throw this out there and see what you guys thought.

Thanks,

Ron

2

Well…there is really two questions here…

First the 1 to 1 question, if the rear roller is in a “muddy” position it will get muddy but will be a thin layer or coating as the roller does not have tread like a tire. This coating more changes the color rather than built up mud, thus not a good answer

As for the seam, you can scrape it with the back side of an exacto blade to improve it but try not to take it out of round. Also mask it and use a liquid putty or Mr. Surfacer to fill the use a sanding stick to sand. It is a [censored] but I have not found a seam I cannot get at.

Rounds Complete!!

3

To add to my brother’s post, Artillerymen take pride in keeping their pieces clean and in good working order. When you are not firing, you are maintaining your weapon so you can be ready to fire at any time. As such, they would not get very dirty, esp. in a semi-permenant firebase or base camp position. So a light dusting is good, anything much more is overkill on the weathering. This has been the same throughout time, during Vietnam as much as present.

Here are a couple pics of M102s in Vietnam to see how clean they were kept.

4

the only time I was ever around M102’s was when I did an OP with the 101st, and then was subleted to the 196th for awhile shooting up the Hiep Duc Ridge Line. It was very wet up there (LZ West), but as Gino has said; “the piece is kept spotless.” How a gun is laid is very critical to the accuracey down range, and you just don’t let mud and crud build up anywhere. The samething with rounds fired. Never a spot of mud on them anywhere

gary

5

Thanks for all your help guys. I knew that you all would know first hand about this. Now for the next question LOL what do you use for the dark OD that those pieces are painted with. I got some Tamiya OD but it’s not quite right.

6

I use Testors Model Master Dark Green, FS34079. It looks right to me.

7

OK…and now its time for m102…101

Color - As you can see by my brothers pictures the OD used in VN is not the same as Tamiya OD. A closer color inTamiya is XF-13 JA Green. It is darker but greener than Tamiya OD. Also the finish would not be as “flat”, but more semi gloss.

Details - There are 3 air lift hooks on the duce. You can add thin wire, 30 gauge, hooked to T of the pin and the oppisite side hook. This was the pin retaining wire.

The elbow telescope on the left side (looking from the front) is a glass lens facing forward.

The two small slots on the quadrent sight (left) and panoramic telecope (right) would have black numbers with white background…just fill in with white.

Top of the panoramic telescope, flat side is a mirrior lens which should be pointing right center away from the weapon

The breech would be painted steel while the sliding block would be polished steel

The front base plate has 8 holes. Fill the holes with plastic rod painted aluminum. These were the retaining stakes. They can stick up above the hole about .010 to .020 inches on the model

The lanyard will connect to the firing lock on the left side of the gun near which is near the quadrent sight. Use some OD thread and put a small styrene ball (~.020 dia) on the end. The ball is painted black.

The gun was made of aluminum except for the barrel and lunet. Paint wore off it eaisly on rubbed areas. On the coner edges of the wishbone trail…top, inside and outside, you can drybrush aluminum on the edge to show ware. More toward the front…near breech, 40 to 60% overall

Also drybrush each of the tops of the holes on the base plate along with about half the outside edge.

The section box built into the trail, dry brush aluminum on the hinges and handles.

Dry brush steel on the inside of the lunet (the tow hook)

On either side of the wishbones there were holders for the aiming posts and ramming staffs. If the gun was in position these would be empty. You would have to cut away the kit molded rods or use PE for new empty holders.

These rods were held in by 2 straps for each side. They are at the 1/4 and 3/4 distance positions. Each is 2 piece with a buckle and would be made togeather so as not to hang down when the holders were empty.

The kit includes a sight chest and shows it in it’s holder on the rear of the wishbone. If you were in a firing position, the chest would not be on the gun but off to the side. The chest is normally held in place by two straps going front to back and of similar design as the rod straps above

The handles on the outside rear of the wishbone are used for rapid traverse and as such also need aluminum drybrush.

Lastly, DO NOT use the roll bar. That modification to the M102 was made circa 1987…long after VN

Markings - You can see from Gino’s pics how some of the markings were done. VN would be white letters…You may find some AM stuff as I don’t remember what is in the kit.

Weathering - VN soil was RED. For dusting you may want to look at MIG pigments, VN Earth. Go lightly but in crevases etc, it would show. Look at the pics.

OK…thats M102…101. If we need the advanved course of firebase organization and ground items…that’s the next class.

Hope this helps. Be as detailed as you want

Rounds Complete!!

8

PS…Partial preview of layout info…here is my M102 done in an early 80s style

Rounds Complete!!

9

first of all there will be pain chips all along the trails and even some ontop the breach area, but these will them be repainted (with a brush) and will be somewhat darker. Even O.D. paint faded under the bright sunlight over there, so dark spots here and there showing a repainted chip is the norm.

gary

10

thanks fellas, Im just a dumb a$$ medic so I havnt spent to much time around artillery pieces so please excuse my ignorance, but this has been awesome! thanks again

11

doc…no one is dumb…I never went anywhere without the bandaid.

As far as not knowing…that’s what the forum is for…glad to help

Rounds Complete!!

12

By definition, DATs are.

13

LOL yes I guess that would be true Rob!

14

Former One-Oh-Deuce Gunner here, Doc… To add to the accessory list, we used a pair of the 36-inch firing stakes as Saftey Stakes on the M102. They were driven into the ground a few inches at the left and right limits, and positioned so the lunette would hit them if we traversed too far… Also, we used a length of 1/2-inch steel pipe under the front of the cradle to mark the Min QE (Minimum Quadrant Elevation). Ordinarily, I used the folding stool from a field desk to sit on, rather than being on my knees during a mission. You could model that, or any ol’ ammo crate or fuze cans could be modified as well. Sometimes, if the soil was right and I was bored, and knew we’d be in position for a couple of days, I’d dig a firing hole at my position and stand in that… 'Course, all that stuff would only apply if you were building a diorama with a crew in a Fire Mission…

Just a bit of Redleg Trivia… The 36-inch stake had another purpose besides the jobs of Safety Stakes & Firing Stakes… We had a bright red one that we kept near the piece, along with the sledge hammer, that was the Section Chief’s “F**K-Up Stake”… Whenever one of the guncrew would screw up with a safety violation (one that didn’t result in damage, death, or injury, that is), the offending Gunbunny would have to drive the stake into the ground, pull it out, drive it in again, pull it out, until the Chief “got tired”… Or, if it was the Chief that stepped on his Richard, until the crew was tired, lol… Actually, since the Cannon Crewman MOS was 13B, the number of times the stake was driven into the ground was 13 and you had one hour to complete the “mission”… If the ground was frozen, rocky, and/or hard-pack, this was a 14-karat b*tch of RTR, “Re-enforcement Training & Review”… I never saw anyone do it twice…

15

What Hans added is correct when in training exercises (see scale stakes at the back of the pick on my 1/35 duce)…we normall used camo poles…bigger but eaiser to see.

I VN the M102 typical firebase would allow the weapon to be fired in a 6400 mil (360 degree) radius. Thus rarly would limit stakes be used as they would be in the way of a rapid shift.

Hans…love the red stake…cranking up the gun off the base plate was always fun if you had to do it alone!!! Built character!!

Rounds Complete!!