Yes indeed folks, I just drop kicked this d______ Black Box cockpit for my Trumpeter Corsair. I’ll deal with the problems I encountered with the original. I can’t make hide or tails of the stupid ****** directions, these blocks of resin that have to be cut off is just a pain the the butt. I am sick of this nonsense. Give me Tamiya, Tamiya and more Tamiya. I will pay because frustration per hr is at the lowest building a Tamiya kit with readable directions, parts that fit and good final products. Thats it for me buyin this crap.
having a bad day are we?
never had a problem with BB sets, use them when ever I can - but hey, that’s just me. The key is to constantly test fit and patience, patience, patience.
A small hacksaw, sandpaper and a mask against the toxic dust particles will do wonders. O, and putting it aside for a week or so will help too[:D].
Seriously, Kraxner is SOOOOO right. Just walk away and come at it fresh once you’ve cooled down and have, perhaps, cleansed the pallet (sp?) with some OOB Tami-gawa action. This works for me every time. Don’t EVER model angry. Only bad results are possible.
Well…I guess aftermarket detail sets aren’t for everyone, but i’ll bet there are thousands of modelers who would be surprized to hear that Black Box resin is “crap”.
Too bad you just didn’t cut the floor out of the Trumpeter cockpit, RJK…glue some strip styrene ribbing under there, and use the cash for another kit…![}:)]
Jkelleycrna, youve got me confused with the original poster. I’m not building a Trumpeter Corsair, and I happen to think Black Box makes very good detail sets.
Regards, Rick
p a t i e n c e…practice & perseverence…
good things take time…& the best things…wellllllllll…
they take more time…[^]
“never allow an inanimate object to overcome a healthy living mind…”
I got the BB cockpit in my Trumpeter Corsair installed. I won’t say it was the easiest thing I’ve done, but I didn’t have any really major problems either.
No, here is the problem. My contention, with many of these things, is companies need to take some time and put together instructions that are legible, readible, and understandable. Don’t assume that everyone who pays 30bucks for a stupid cockpit has the here with all to understand all the nuances. Where is a manual which logically goes through these things, a reference that people can read and understand? It does not exist. Instead, you have to post and post and post and hope someone does answer your question. I am not saying anything bad at all about this board, it is just that some things are considere dso simple to experienced modelers, that they go by the wayside. But, all of this could be corrected by compoanies hiring a staff which does logical drawings, explains things from a simple point of view. That is what I am asking. I think there is tremendous room for improvements. Not all of us want to scratchbuild. Many of us want to take a kit and build the kit as it lays with all the detail provided. We don’t want to have to spend hrs on the internet or buying books looking for that one cutaway view which shows the correct color of the canister on the floor of the aircraft from the theatre of war we are interested in building. It is nuts sometimes to build these things. I know there are at least 2 people out there who understand what I am saying and feel the same way. I respect the builds of you guys, they are incredible. However, I for one do not have the trhee dimensional insights nor the knowledge to replicate what you do. So, the closest company that comes close to allowing me to build nice detail is Tamiya. Thats why I will spend the money. I am frustrated and have not been able to finish one of 5 started kits in months.
I understand what you are saying. Their instructions are marginal at best, but look at it from their perspective:
Hire two people to write detailed instructions, and pay them $30k a year (and I’m not even sure you could get them for $30k a year). By the time you add benefits and everything, they would be seeing an outlay of at least $100k a year for the two. Now, figure they sell 5,000 cockpits a year (that’s 100 a week and I’m not sure they would sell that many) you are looking at roughly $20 per unit price increase just to pay for those two writers. Since their cockpits are on the order of $25 to $50 each you are seeing a price increase of roughly 50% to 100% just for those two writers. My numbers are quick and dirty, but you get the idea.
I do understand your paint though. I’ve been cussing Tamiya for the past few weeks.
I think there is an intermediate ground somewhere between living with terrible instructions on one hand and charging $20 more per set on the other. For instance, BB could give out twenty free detail sets to trustworthy members of this forum stipulating that they send back their building notes and suggestions for improving the instructions. They could hire someone for a modest fee (maybe someone here?) to incorporate the suggestions into an improved instruction sheet. Or maybe post the building notes on a website. I’ll bet they could do that for $1-2 per unit for 5,000 units.
I would certainly be more than willing to pay, say, $22 instead of $20 for a detail set that had excellent instructions. If it saved me even half an hour of the sort of irritation expressed by nsclcctl, it would be worth it.
If I ever start a small company (a notion I ponder in moments of insanity), one of the first resources I will tap are modelers themselves. We all realize that noboby gets rich off this hobby, and many people are willing to give valuable feedback for little more than the cost of a pre-production item.
Man, I do feel your pain. Never had the percentage of the GNP for Black Box—we have to dream, don’t we?—but have had the same problem for years with Tom’s Modelworks. Product is wonderful, prices great, but the instructions are squiggly hand-drawn things (that are then reduced to a grainy blur) that I find impossible to decipher. Even with good photographs of the real thing in front of me, it’s sometimes desperately hard to figure out what’s what. I always wonder why manufacturers who take real, loving care with their product don’t seem to realize that the instructions are part of that product; if you buy the thing and can’t figure out how to use it, you’re not likely to buy again.
Still, the other guys are right. Put the box in the closet, take a deep breath, and build something cheap and fun. Or pull out that odd-but- appealing set of old decals you can’t figure out what to do with, and put 'em on something. Once the frustration has died down, the world is a better place.
(And thehannaman’s “Don’t ever model angry” is brilliant. Cuts down on those nasty little #11 blade injuries.)
You don’t have to hire full time graphic artists for the number of products many of these people put out. Hire free lance people. I don’t buy that. In fact, I have written to Accurate on numerous occasions and offered to read their instructions as a lay person or average modeler and make suggestions. They ignore me and they are one of the biggest culprits out there. I am a research scientist by trade and this is what I do for a living. When I report my work, it has to be in a form that another scientist in Bangladesh for instance could go to his or her bench and replicate. That is what is missing. These companies are ripping us off thinking all of modelers are on the high end of knowledge and understanding. It is so easy to just look at something when you are an expert and then look at the next guy and assume he has your same experience. That is not true. Help us out with decent instructions, take the time and care about the buying public. I belive in my heart these people are lazy and do not care. The product is out there, they built it, we will buy it cause we have no choice. Right now, there is a choice, go Tamiya. I am just waiting for them to put out a B17 and an Avenger. Come on guys, give us these planes.
You are absolutely right. And if I might throw another idea your way, for when you start your company: Set up a “Feedback Forum”. Not just an email link, but a true forum similar to this one. Have sections for upcoming products, and areas for each product area. A place where people who are having problems getting something to work can find answers specific to that problem. It also puts them in touch with the company itself, and in many cases that is all it takes to gain repeat customers.
I’ve often wondered why more companies don’t do that. Forum software is cheap (as in “Free”), and is not difficult to set up (I have two running on my web site), and it really gives people a feeling that the company ares about its customers.
You are all correct , in my book. And look at the smaller mass market firms like AcMin and Williams Bros. I don’t think anyone would disagree that AcMin has set the new standard for instructions that all model companies should aspire too. They leave no margin for error, and the instructions are written in a clear, concise, though conversational style which even has a sense of humor, because they understand how we modelers think. When they say, “Pay close attention to this step and do it exactly as we tell you,” they explain why this is so.
And Williams Bros. manages to convey more clear informatoin and drawings on one sheet of paper than most kit manufacturers get on eight (especially, think Hobbycraft, with their no-text, awfully-drawn, no paint callouts or part identifications, instruction sheets. I have in some cases found their instructions utterly worthless).
I have a long background, not only in journalism, but also playwriting, a couple of novels (unpublished as yet, but the plays were all produced in one small theater or other), I have done aviation museum pubic relations writing and, this is the point, I have experience in technical writing of the type that takes complicated information and words it for the simplest use by the most people. I would be glad to write instructions on a freelance basis, paid for each instruction sheet I did, rather than salaried, which is how it is done at smaller companies that don’t have big, specialized staffs. The small companies, just as they commission people to make various masters for their molds, also should hire experienced writers to do the instructions. Writers who are also modelers. I don’t know why this is the place they choose to cut corners, given the investment of so much of our modeling budget we have to make in order to pay for these expensive AM parts. We do vote with our wallets, and these little firms should learn that. So that’s my two cents, FWIW.
Tom
PE and resin parts, from my experience, have always been a pain in the neck to install. and like you say, the instuctions are fairly vague the majority of the time. when i fool with them, i have found it takes time, lots of dry fitting and sanding, and even some “clipping” with the sprue cutters here and there. remember, no one is going to be able to see the back sides of these things friend, you can feel free to “hell hack” the crap out of them as long as you don’t screw up the viewable goods. i have taken my dremel tool on several accounts and had to thin down floors and side walls of cockpits in order to make them fit. you are exactly right and i know where you are coming from with the frustrations of installing these AM parts, but when you get em’ painted, washed, drybrushed and in…THEY LOOK ABSOLUTELY SWEET!!! just be patient and go slow buddy, you’ll find you can figure it out and get it in before you know it. if you get frustrated, just lay it aside and do something else for a while. happy modelling bubba, later.
Uh, I thought this hobby was supposed to be good for our nerves and refreshing for our souls, like cool mountain stream water! The day I let it get the best of me is the day I get a new hobby!
Now breathe deeply and chant with the Ol’ Nerd… Oooooooooooooooommmmmmm!
Hey Modelnerd,
the only “good for our nerves and refreshing for our souls, like cool mountain stream water!” I get out off modeling is the satisfaction of a nicely completed model. The journey to that satisfaction however can be better compared to walking through hell fire and brimstone to get to the cool shade of nice park [:D][8D]
This is precisely the reason I have trouble finishing my projects.After I have done everything except brain surgery to get the cockpit to fit, I have no drive to do the rest of what needs to be done to finish the kit.The BB 1/32 A-10 cockpit is a good example.I love BB stuff,to me there is no equal.But it is disheartening to spend 2 weeks just trying to get a cockpit to fit,and then you find out that the kit itself is fraught with fit prob’s.Cheer up friend,you are definately in good company here.I think it is safe to say we ALL have been there at least once.