I just got my airbrush (Iwata Revolution series) setup in place and have started using it. I love it - night and day difference between the rattle-cans!
Anyway - my question is this.
When I use Tamiya or MM acrylics in the color cup I find that the cup is very hard to clean afterwards. To the point of having to use my finger nail to “scrape” paint off the sides of the cup in places. I thin the paing with alcohol before using so it’s rather thin … The cleaner I use (Medea Airbrush Cleaner) doesn’t seem to be working for these stubborn areas - … it [the cleaner] does seem to be working as far as blowing it out the nozzle and cleaning the nozzle and needle assembly, as well as “most” of the color cup. It’s just a few areas in the color cup that are taking on the epoxy attitude. With the cup full of the cleaner I tried both a Q-tip and finally a rag but ended up using the finger nail.
If this is the “way it is” I can certainly deal with it but, from reading on here, I get the impression that I may be doing something wrong - wrong cleaner maybe?
Don’t use alcohol to thin ModelMaster acrylics—it’s incompatible with the binder. You also don’t state what alcohol you are using with the Tamiya paints—it should be isopropyl. Incompatible solvents, or those marginally so, can cause the problem you relate—and make the paint an absolute puppy mother to remove.
To clean the acrylics, try Windex or Simple Green, and clean immediately after you finish painting.
Some use lacquer thinner to clean out acrylics, but as some brands are incompatible with them, I hesitate to do so except as a last resort.
I’m confused as to what to use to thin the MM acrylics … since they are water based I thought alcohol (yes - I use isopropyl - 70%) would be the best choice. What should I be using instead? Mineral spirits? I hope you don’t say lacquer thinner as I was hoping to keep the whole process as non toxic as possible.
Yet - you mention that Tamiya does do well with iso alcohol … odd but I guess that is just the difference in the chemistry of the 2 brands?
A couple quick squirts with Windex will do the trick. The amonia in the windex disolves acrylic like you wouldn’t believe. Run some of that through the airbrush as well, and use it to clean the airbrush parts. Works like a champ! [:)]
MM Acryl is “supposed” to be airbrush worthy out of the bottle. Have you tried NOT thinning? MM Acryl is water based so you can use, that’s right! Water!! Tamiya is alcohol based, so isopropyl works great there. CAUTION isopropyl alchol dries really fast, tends to flatten out gloss paints and causes “tip dry”. A good acrylic retarder (Liquidtex or Createx) is recommended. Tamiya Thinner is pre-mixed with retarder.
I would step up to 90 or 99% pure isopropyl rather than the 70% as you don’t know what the regional bottler is diluting it with. Okay, they use water, but is it hard water or soft? Hard water can leave calcium deposits inside your airbrush. You don’t want that. Really, you don’t. I’ve also heard of people using Future to thin with, I’ve never tried that.
Windex will get off most UNCURED acrylic paints. Windex has ammonia which helps, but it is almost one third isopropyl alcohol (that’s why it dries streak free!). When Windex doesn’t cut it, use the isopropyl straight out of the bottle.
I’ve heard that MM Acryl is more difficult to clean than Tamiya. Are you experiencing more trouble with one brand or the other? You also don’t mention if the Revolution you use is siphon or gravity fed. I’m assuming gravity fed. I would be worried that if the cleaner isn’t getting it out of the cup, it’s not getting it out of the nozzle either. Perhaps it is, though. Cups are exposed to air, where nozzles stay “wet”, and that could well be the difference.
I’ve found that at least for Tamiya, PollyScale, ModelMaster, and artists’ acrylic, anything Windex won’t get off, Simple Green (50% dilution to full strength) will if you soak it for ten minutes—works better than straight isopropyl 90%.
BTW: you can use small amounts of distilled or deionized water as a cosolvent with 90+% isopropyl to slow drying, but you need a slight increase in spraying pressure to go with it.
LOL no problem, I’ve “borrowed” most of my information from you anyway! [;)] I haven’t tried Simple Green, I’ll have to look for it. My poor wife keeps getting her hopes up! I come home with big bottles of Windex and Future, and have done nary a window or cleaned the floor!
MM is definitely harder to cut with a solvent than others. I have the same prob with MM Acryls and other acrylics to a lesser degree with both my Revolution and Eclipse on occasion… what happens is where the meniscus of paint is, it dries along the cup leaving a ring of hardened paint… I’ve never had problems anywhere else in the brush though. The Windex and other solvents mentioned should work just fine for cleaning that out. I usually wet a qtip with windex and rub at the ring and the pieces will start flaking off.
You should have no prob thinning MM Acryl with Tamiya thinner, it has a retarder as well as the alchohol type solvent in it. MM Acryl has glycol ether in it, it’s an ethanol compound so maybe the iso and the ethanol aren’t playing well? (just a wild guess) I believe Tamiya acrylic thinner uses the same base for it’s solvent, I’m almost certain the MM Acryl thinner does. I’ve been using it for yrs with great results though. The 250ml bottle is only about $5 and last forever…
Ethanol and isopropyl are miscible, although they are not necessarily compatible with the same polymers.
If MM acrylics use a glycolated ether in the solvent blend, it is likely that one or more components of the binder are not compatible with isopropyl or ethyl alcohol. There are more glycolated ethers, IIRC, than all of us together can shake stirring sticks at, and all of them have different properties.
Organic solvents generally behave in one of four ways when mixed:
They mix in perfect harmony.
They don’t mix, period.
They mix grudgingly.
They react to form new components.
Miscibility with water is related to the polarity of the solvent molecule, or part of it. In very general terms, the more polar the organic solvent, the more likely it will mix with water, and……… HERE THERE BE DRAGONS**!!! AND IF YOU GET PAST THEM, YOU’LL FALL OFF THE EDGE OF THE EARTH!!!** Unless, of course, you are an organic chemist, a mage of incomprehensible knowledge. Not being one, I won’t go there… [swg]
I find that Windex does do a better job of clean up with the stubborn paint cling (tho9900 - you describe the exact issue I’m having).
I tried MM without thinning and it seemed (at first) to work well - but closer inspection revealed a slight “bumpy” texture I had to wet sand off. Of course I’m very new at airbrushing so that could have been due to some other rookie mistake.
I thin Tamiya Acrylics exclusively with Tamiya thinner, works fantastic! I’ve also been able to clean CURED Tamiya Acrylic using Windex. It just required a bit more spritzing, and a gentle wipe and rinse.
Ya, I had some “texture” issues on my FW190 prop and Helldiver prop. I simply nuked them with Windex, then gently rinsed them under the tap with my fingers, spritzed some more let it soak for a bit, rinse and repeat.
Well, it’s been an ongoing problem with my airbrush/compressor set up… but only when I use a siphon feed jar. I have to crank the pressure up very high just to get paint to flow. I’ve recently purchased an open cup that requires much less pressure, so the problem went away by default. So… basically I believe the problem was too much air pressure.
hmmm … I have the open syphon cup and running about 60psi. The only time it did the “bumps” thing was with the un-thinned MM. I just tried it again having thinned the MM with water and it sprayed smooth …
You only conclusion I can come to at this time is that I have a lot to learn!
