People are thin skinned online because it’s just not complete communication. No body language, facial expressions, tone of voice. People miss the spirit of the advice.
I love when people point out a mistake I made. It’s so easy to miss something on a model. Or, as everyone else said, help me learn things for next time. That said I never tell others what I don’t like just what I think is cool. A lot of times I don’t say anything whether I like it or not. I’m here reading daily but don’t post tons. Besides to many compliments start loosing meaning and a little criticism makes the compliments much sweeter.
I believe that constructive criticism is the only way we as modelers can get better. If someone points out that they can see the seam between the wing halves next I will pay more attenetion when putting the wing halves together. This hobby is all about getting better with every build. I’ve been doing it for 30 years and by no means am I anywhere near perfect.
Most of my models are 4 footers they look great from 4 feet away. JOHN
I am a rookie/hobby returnee, still learning… when I post a WIP I state at the top to please give criticism and feedback…then I get good responses. I think the key is that I ASK for criticism, and I follow up with changes to my WIPs (happened in the armor forum).
One suggestion - when you “correct” someone, be specific and maybe suggest HOW to fix the error.
This is kind of a tough one, some people (like you) are looking for constructive feedback some take offense to it.
I pointed out the fact that a guy was using an incorrect resin interior for his model on another site and a while back and I kind of got the impression that people thought I was being a “detail Nazi”.
Additionally, if you post 109 or 190, I am well versed with their intracacies and can usually spot an error pretty quickly. Anything else, you could put the landing gear on top of the wings and I wouldn’t know the difference, in that case all you’ll get out of me is “looks great”!
Definetly a touchy subject. I was taught if you do’nt have anything nice to say than do not say anything at all. If I see a model that is really sub-par I tent to not post a response. If I see a post with a nice model I usally tent to point out what looks good and not mention what I did not like because I do not whish to insult someone. Especially if I do not know them that well. In the GB forum it is much easier. I usally know all of the builders well and input is always accepted as help not critisism.
I once saw a model posted online (different forum, in case you’re wondering) where the landing gear was visibly splayed, so I asked the poster if the kit had given him any problems in that area - it’s a kit that I have, and I was interested in his opinion. No comments at all from me, just the one question - “Did the landing gear struts give you any trouble?”
Meanwhile, another member left a comment that was somewhat critical of how the canopy frames were painted. Instead of an answer to my question, I got a rather terse response from the builder over both issues, to the effect that it was good enough for him, so it ought to be good enough for me.
Lesson learned - I don’t respond to that person anymore when he posts a build.
The only way to know if someone is willing to listen to feedback is to give some - tactfully - and cross your fingers. Some respond well, and some don’t. Personally, I’ve chosen to err on the side of encouragement, as several others have mentioned. If someone solicits feedback, that’s different, and it tells me a lot about that person - they have an interest in improving their skills. In that case, I’m perfectly willing to help out where I can.
A lot of very good points. I try to ask for good and bad reviews when I post something. I am open to good critasism. I agree thats the only way to learn. Now on giving, I feel in some cases, I dont know enough about the subject or dont realy now how to fix a flaw I see. I consider myself still to be a novice.GB are different. You tend to know the people in it better.So if I post something from now on, Let me have it. Both barrels!..Harv
I obviously went to bed too early last night. I missed a lot of good comments and thoughts on the subject. Seems like most of us are open to well meaning comments designed to help us all get better. (I’ve been on the receiving end of the rivet nazi comments before too.) Good modeling to us all. (Now to get that last landing light turned right side round.)
I think Manny’s post sums it up quite well. It’s not what is said as much as how, and then only when actually solicited. Some just want to to show their work and say “Hey, lookee what I built!” and I wouldn’t want to burst their bubble.
A lot of great points raised here and from a personal perspective I like to see constructive feedback and take it in the spirit it’s given which on this forum is almost always positive.
While I haven’t seen this happen on this forum it does on others and it’s something I really can’t stand. Say for instance I post up a Tamiya Spitfire and a reply comes back from some “Spitfire experten” about how could I possibly build that kit given how inaccurate it is and I have wasted my time and should have gone for brand X kit.
Hmmm, mental note to self, if Soulcrusher doesn’t comment on one of my builds I take is read that it’s crap [;)]
That’s been my usual approach too. If I don’t see anything that really sticks out then I don’t comment. When I see something that looks like one of those important issues that all modelers get tripped up on from time to time then those are the things worth commenting about if we’re to keep the forum interesting. I guess it’s my personality but nothing bores me more then logging during a few spare minutes and reading a whole string of responses that read like “nice job” or “great idea” when the subject is obviously flawed. I just think we have a responsibility to all of us to try and make everyone here a better modeler. We can’t do that if we give inaccurate replies. If the wing has a huge gap in the wing root or a canopy that is on crooked (or the landing light is on backwards), it doesn’t matter who built it or how much effort went into it, the next one will only get better if the builder knows about the problem. I built models for years worried about the finish without having taken the time to get the basics right. I hope this forum is dedicated to making us better modelers. If people are looking for “Gee lookie what I just built” that’s what galleries should be for IMHO. If one of us is on the receiving end of points that are hard to hear that doesn’t make them wrong. I’ve not seen anyone on this forum who doesn’t give out well meaning criticism.
I hate coming into a long thread and not having an original thought in my head. That’s because of all the very bright people here already having touched on the main points of the discussion. I am on the side of what the theme of this thread requests. I have done 3 thing in the last few years, since getting back into modeling, that has improved the models I build. One was to join a forum full of good modelers. Next was to join a club. And last was to start judging. The common thread in all of those is the critiquing I get, or give and hear in the case of judging.
Me too. And I can look for ages and not see the mistakes I made. need you guys for that.
Exactly!
Hmmm… that’s an excellent point[:D] I guess we could take that as a sort of critque[;)]
So now I will put in each post of a finished model…
As always comments and most important, critiques are welcome. And by critiques I mean constructive criticism. Not that, “I am lord high master of the modeling world and how could you not see that green is off by a barley imperceptible shade of tan!!!” But please point out the mistakes. I am a big boy and can take care of myself so don’t worry about hurting my felling. I promise not to go running home to mommy. Thanks for stopping by and having a look.
FSM will have to get a bigger server since all the post willbe that much longer when we all have to put our disclaimers and releases in there[;)]
I love it when people get feedback and pointers from the guys who actually flew or worked on the plane being modeled. That type of advice is priceless, and hard to argue with.
I guess I’m ambivalent about this topic. I’m pretty much a noob, and by the time I’ve finished a model, I can (and gladly will, if asked) spout a list of flaws that reaches into the several dozen range. Just because I’m a beginner modeller doesn’t mean I don’t know what its supposed to look like. If I then posted photos, and got critical feedback, I wouldn’t be offended if a subset of these flaws (those visible in a low-res photo) were pointed out to me. I would question why I forced you all to look at my horrific monstrosity to tell me what I already know. There may be value in learning how others prioritize the flaws, i.e., which areas I should put the most effort into fixing on the next model. If someone honestly (or at least seemed to be honest[:D]) posted something they liked about my build, that would actually be cool.
Don’t get me wrong, I think its great that people post their builds at all levels. I enjoy seeing them all. Most are at much higher level than myself. Some are just looking for an 'attaboy, others want criticism. If you want constructive criticism, just say so when you post your build pics, what could be easier.
This is why critique is much more helpful if it is accompanied by suggestions on how to fix or avoid the problem. Just pointing out flaws by itself is rarely helpful.
As far as prioritizing problem areas, that’s probably a personal preference. My personal #1 area is seams. In my opinion, noticable seams negate any amount of detail, panel lines, weathering, shading, etc. Not to say that none of my models have any visable seams that I may of missed, but that’s what I strive for before anything else.
I agree that most of the constructive criticism given on this site is very well presented, and well received. But I have to disagree with one of your statements.
Even if I was a master modeller - I wouldn’t assume I had a responsibility like that. Particularly on a site like this.
I guess I don’t see anything wrong with some people posting a “looky what I made” post of a mediocre model. I’d be lying if I said that this wans’t part of my motivation to post my work. I appreciate criticism too - but I also like to show stuff that would otherwise be seen by only a handful of people.
Probably the primary motivating factor when I post pictures of my modeling work is to show off what I’ve done; secondarily I’m looking for constructive criticism so that I might be able to improve my skill set.
FSM has been invaluable to me in terms of improving my modeling skills. I’ve gone from building strictly OOB and just putting the kits together (assembler rather than modeler) to using all kinds of stuff I find around my work bench or even expensive add-ons like PE kits to super-detail good quality kits like the Tamiya Corsair I just finished, or scratch-building entire interiors or other details like I did with a couple of old Monogram kits, the SA-16 and the P-40B.
No one likes to feel like they’ve been slammed but I think this is important to remember …
If you have constructive criticism, offer your thoughts to the poster but watch how you “say” it via the words you choose. And consider how you would offer your thoughts in verbal form if you were standing in front of the poster. This can be difficult as so much of our communication is done via non-verbal cues, and the internet really doesn’t allow for non-verbal communication.
The best part of this site for me is the photography of your finished models. I find it highly motivating and inspiring. You’re all creating special treasures!
Point A) I’m still pretty new here. I cannot yet match up skill level with personalites (yet). Though I’m starting to get it. And I think it’s important to take that into consideration.
Point B) As stated prior, the idea not commenting when there’s nothing positive to say comes into play
Point C) The very observant comment here ealier, regarding the lack of communication clues such as body language and tone leave interpetation wide open. I don’t want to “blow somebody out of the water”.
Point D) I’m with dcaponeII, I want criticism, so let it rip! i promise, I’m not thin skinned.
PS: Most of the flaws I see around here are dwarfed by the overall excellent work presented.
That is definitely more thoughtful and helpful. And think about it… if you (or I or anybody) applied that to every aspect of voicing criticsm I think society in general would really be onto something positive.
