A certain prolific European manufacturer

It seems as if just about anyone involved with the retail end of our hobby is producing some sort of “modeling supplies” that they try to convince us we can’t do without: how many different paint manufacturers can we live with ( I recall reading that in our models’ scales getting a true representation of the actual color of a tank [for instance] is problematic - diffent paint color lots; field applications; etc.) And these paints ain’t cheap; up to $5 for 17ml of acrylic?? How about another dude offering sanding sticks for $4…go to a beauty salon and get the same thing for less than 25% of that price. Don’t get me started on the pigmants, washes, mud effects, etc. My complaint is that these guys are taking the average modeler to the cleaners - insisting the modeler needs these products in order to make their project more “realistic”. I read in FSM about a fantastic model - unfortunately, the modeler has spent the rent money on extra stuff for his masterpiece: the model itself (the quality is so much better than the 70’s, I agree), the PE, metal tracks, paint ( no, you can’t use “flat earth”, you need something a halfshade darker)…Go to an online hobby shop and check out the paint section - pretty impressive, no? Anyhow, my problem is this one manufacturer who peddles sooo many items he claims are necessary for a “prize-winning model” that it’s putting the hobby out of the reach of the young folks who might’ve been interested in scale modeling, but the cash flow is prohibitive. I need to spend $30 on a paint set specifically for Sherman tanks…or F4 Phantoms, or SS troops of Das Reich, but not Wiking??? I’m aware you’ll probably not publish this letter, because I rail against major benefactors of your magazine…but I got it off my chest. It’s not the products, it’s the PRICE!

You don’t have to do or buy anything that you don’t want to.Plenty of guys model on a budget.It’s also possible to get by on basic paints and pigments.Who are you building for, that guy or for you.I build for my enjoyment, I try to be as accurate as I could, but if I make a muddy tank, I don’t care if it’s Russian,European,or African dirt.

Hey,I’m happy that that guy produces so many different shades, and choices.The more the better.I choose which one to use and not.No ones twisting your arm.If somebody enjoys spending and super detailing,thats great too.

There are plenty of basic choices for kids and budget minded persons to get into modeling.

There, so now I posted my rant.

Hello!

I’m going to put myself about in the middle of you r position friends - in the no mans land or in the neutral zone (Star Trek!)…

I’m also a bit annoyed by all of those products and especially how they tell you you absolutely NEED them to build something presentable. When I think about it a little more you need some insecurities to come into play to start feeling bad about it…

Then again it’s right - nobody can make you think this way or make you buy something you don’t want to buy. The chice is there. I’m also scratching my head at people when I tell them sometimes: You can buy something a lot cheaper here or there, and they say: No, I’m going to stick to my PRODUCT FOR MODELLERS - it’s more expensive, but I got my reasons (rationalization follows). Again - it’s their money and they can spend it any way they want.

Thanks for reading and have a nice day

Paweł

Yes, it is true that there are so much extra stuff out there and it all costs money and it is very easy to overspend and I think that even budget careful model builders have issues getting hold of the things they “need” for projects.

Things are not getting cheaper… the rules of supply and demand. but with the internet it is so much easier to shop around for good deals and by careful use of ebay, international exchange rates etc good prices for paints etc.

The canny modeller realises that that 17mm paint bottle can do more than one tank, part of a tank/ aircraft etc and careful reading of an instruction manual that for a sheman ONE overall colour is needed not a full 6 box sett that includes highlight paint, shadow paint etc. This is what daylight is for. You DON’T need to paint a lighter bit to represent daylight.

The Canny modeller soon builds up a paint box where a new bottle of whatever colour is needed every so often. Experience that is built up which includes research tells you which colour you will use more of.

Do you need that speciality sanding stick for £5? I wonder if the online or even local DIY stores have something similar? Oh Yes… a pack of 10 superfine sanding sheets A4 size for £6 plus some ice lolly sticks off ebay… pack of 50 for £1. Spending a little more but in the long run saving a lot by making your own… Can make my own with custom ends etc and there’s plenty to use up! Made 50 custom sanding sticks with some white glue which I already had for £7 and some of my time and saved… LOTS!

Another tip. Have a jar that you throw change into. Your “Extras” jar.

Get a small plastic cup that you can use to dilute your paint before putting it in your brush. your 17mm acrylic paint goes that little bit further with normal water from the tap, or even a bottle of the paint thinner. just a couple of drops of thinner makes the paint go further and still gets full depth and coverage!

Sometimes or in my case, being very budget concious because of my very small income I think outside the box on a frequent basis.

My airbrush compressor needs replacing. I can’t afford to do that all at once. There is a jar on my window ledge that has COMPRESSOR on it and it is almost full of change. I need some AM tracks for several armour kits… a jar for that is next to it with some change in from the depths of my pockets. I buy kits that have a good discount on them, some only just released quite often from abroad.

When they arrive I spend a couple of days looking through them and then deciding what I need. A set of tracks for a Panther and a metal barrel. That is two jars on the shelf and the kit in the stash.

Large Bomber from HK to build for them… OK. I need another bottle of Nato black, and dark earth. I have enough dark green in… the new bottle of dark earth will also do that spitfire…

It all come down to careful management of materials and thinking outside the box.

I do the best I can with what I’ve got. Dollar store specials. Acrylic paints from Joann Fabrics at .50 a bottle. Just takes a little ingenuity and keeping your eyes open when in any type of store. A nail trimmer in the dollar store does as good as a $20 Sprue cutter.

I build to please me but I have also won my share of medals at shows. Just relax and have fun. Don’t sweat the small stuff.

Jim [cptn]

Stay Safe.

After having recently purchased for a couple armor projects a number of specialty washes, pigments, and filters from the referenced manufacturer, I would be curious to know more of these lower priced alternatives for future reference…

FSM features a tips and tricks section in the mag still, perhaps they should be written up and submited there as well.

I have no idea what you are referring to, so I guess it doesn’t have an effect on me.

I just like to make as many of my own detail parts as I can. Gizmology, Hans von Hammer used to call it. I learned a lot from that guy.

Selling stuff to hobbyists is like shooting fish in a barrel. All hobbies, not just ours. I’m not casting stones, I’ve been the biggest sucker in so many hobbies. [:(DD]

I can’t bring myself to blame them, the sellers.

That said, I am not dismissing your comment. I get it.

I saw a “PE Pencil” for postioning tiny PE parts yesterday…selling for $3. Far as I can tell, it’s a 30 cent wax pencil. But the thing is, I’ll probably end up buying one. Just watch. [;)]

I’m not sure what European company you’re referring to. Maybe I’m just old fashioned or out of step, but I don’t heavily weather. What little weathering I do is mostly done with stuff like ancient Floquil I’ve had for 30 yrs or something home brew.

My personal opinion stuff like “Solution boxes” and similar items is just slick marketing. Look at any number of build articles in magazines. It’s more about product placement and name dropping. To the newbie I can see how it’d be easy to think “I need all that stuff so I can get a good final result.”

It seems like there are more players in this market every year. I suspect there is a high profit margin in it thus why you see so many.

I don’t remember all that crap being around when I got into the hobby in the 1980s.

Today’s weathering trends are more involved than what was the norm back in the 1980s. It used to be that a dark wash and light drybrushing was considered good enough. The irony is that most if not all the new materials existed back then. But they are used in ways most of us were not familiar with up until now.

I confess to be in awe at the multi-layered weathering some can accomplish today, but am also aware that sometimes the effects are overly exaggerated or just plain wrong. But to each his own - we need to keep this in mind when building our models. It’s just a hobby.

Do or do not. But you can try if you wish.

A cheap hack thread might be a good idea. Remember though that cheaper isn’t always better. A friend who paints figures has been dabbling in alternate sources for paint, including making his own. He found out that cheaper oil paints do not perfom as well as the more expensive Windsor & Newton brand.

Tamiya Acrylics are 2.50 for a 23ml bottle, of course you will have to mix some colors and I’ve seen comments by others that they love Tamiya Acrylics but don’t like to mix paint so they opt for the more expensive paint with a color for every need. So we should be glad all those items are out there, it’s a good indication the hobby is doing well. I know I wouldn’t want to go back to nothing but tiny testor enamel bottles of paint and tube glue.

I buy what I need, not what someone else tells me I need. It’s nice to have selection. Bravo for those who put out the different products. What someone else decides to buy to complete their project is none of my business.

Same here. I have several hobbies, and each has its fads that come and go. Some folks believe that by following all the fads, that proves they are a true (name your hobby). Others have less time for pursuing their hobby and can afford labor saving fads. As so many said above, you pays your nickel (I guess in today’s real dollars, your dollar) and make your choice. One of the things about forums like this, some folks do present alternatives to more expensive methods, and folks learn and change. I have learned so much by what I see here (and the old rec.models.scale newsgroup before that).

I’m with you Tickmagnet, since I have swapped over to the " european" paint system I found the FUN! in modelling again. Simple, lasts for a long time, ALOT less waste…be bitter, be a naysayer, above all ENJOY the hobby. No one is forcing you to spend your money on those products. Likewise those of us who choose to use afor mentioned products shouldn’t be bashed either.

What is…

…curious minds want to know. [8-|]

This reminds me of a funny story a friend once told me. He was Francois Verlindens first employee. He made plaster castings in Verlindens basement. According to him, he and François were sitting at a table one afternoon and François I told him, “These people will buy anything. I could put my “***t” in a box and sell it as 1/35 sewage and they will buy it.”. I am certainly the chief of all sinners when it comes to buying stuff that I could probably make myself. Mud, grime, pigments, and stuff like that are within arms reach anytime I need them and they’re pretty darn convenient.

I like that there are numerous manufacturers and colors for ”mud splatter”. We build models for enjoyment and to make something authentic to the real thing. You can choose to make your own mud color splatter or buy one already made for you. Like any consumer I purchase products that I hope has value. Will this make this modeling execution easier? Will it look better than what I’m already doing?

I recently posted a thread about a product. Many of you replied with your opinion. This forum is great for that. I recently read an article or something here about a modeler with an extremely small budget. The advice given was to use pencil dust for exhaust stains. You can’t get much cheaper than that. It’s your money spend it as you wish. $1.00 for a pencil or $8.00 for exhaust effects? We have a choice and that’s the greatest part.

Hi Greg, I read the "european " product to be Ammo by Mig…however that is just MY impression. The OP may have something completely different in mind and I simply missed the mark.

I do stand by my statement that with so many products that make modeling more enjoyable for me, I like the “plug and play” factor of these choices. As most of you know I’m not a rivet counter nor can I diffinitivly tell you european dust from russian mud…nor do I care dirt is dirt…but for me to have something available if I choose to go down that path is great.[8-|]

Oh, good grief. I forgot the thread title. [:(DD] <— 2 of those for me today so far

Ammo by Mig makes perfect sense.

Thanks for satisfying my curiousity!

Your welcome[H]