1/96 USS Constitution - more questions

Hello again,

I received my Constitution model yesterday and sat marveling at all the pieces, rigging directions, etc. Since I hadn’t built a model in probably 20 years all my old Testors enamels had completely dried up. Of course I don’t have any glue anymore either. Back when I built models before I always used enamels and Testors model glue. Now, that I’ve been reading some more I see that a lot of plastic kit ship builders are using CA which I take to mean cyanoacrylate glue.

Is CA the norm for building plastic sailing ship kits and if so which is the better glue - the thin or thick type? Also, I have a question about paint. Like I said, it alwasy used to be enamels, but then right as I was getting out of models more and more companies started making acrylics which was nice because they can be cleaned up with water. No nasty solvents and nasty fumes. My wife does custom realistic paint jobs on plastic and resin horse models and she uses a combination of airbrushed acrylics and pastels to achieve her realistic results. The final piece is sprayed with Krylon matte fixative to seal and protect the finish.

So, what are the paints of choice for use with plastic sailing ship kits? Finally, I own a nice Paasche airbrush which I’ve not had a chance to use yet. Would it be feasible to use it to paint the larger areas of the ship such as the hull halves? Obviously I’d use brushes for all the detail work for weathering.

Glue: My personal recommendation would be Testor’s Liquid Plastic Cement. It bonds, by “melting” the plastic, and as the liquid evaporates, the plastic solidifies. For a styrene to styrene joint, there’s little better. Care, however, in handling the model when using liquid cements; capilary action will cause the cement to creep under your fingers, and leave large fingerprints on the surface! I still prefer to use straight MEK (Methyl Ethyl Ketone) as a plastic cement, it evaporates faster, but contact with the skin can cause nerve damage. It is also NOT a good inhalant, so use overkill ventillation. Alphcyanoacrylates ( ACC )(CA) have very good tensile strength, but next to no sheer strength. I use CA only to hold things like eyebolts in place. There are some who swear by CA as a good glue for plastic kit assembly, I have never shared that point of view. Paint: If it has been years since you used any model paints, you will have to redevelope your painting techniques. This would be a good time to go to Acryllics. It would also be a good time to consider airbrushing. I am not an artist, and I do all my weathering with dry brush techniques, so a single stage airbrush serves me very well. If you want to weather with an airbrush, you would be better off with a two stage brush, which gives you independant control of air, and paint, simultaniously. I moved from enamels to solvent based laquers ( the old Floquil line), and have stayed with the Floquil paints since. I know how to use the product, and can make it do what I want. I have a comfort level with the product. Your Paasche air brush is an excellent brush. Again, where you are starting, it is a good time to combine techniques. Learn to use your brush with Acryllic paints. They are environmentally friendly, and brush cleanup is easier( there are others who can help you with acryllics, a visit to your local hobby shop could also be useful). Finally, good luck with that constitution kit, that’s quite a project! Go slow, and patiently, the finished model will be worth the time and effort.

Pete

See if you can find a copy of Les Wilkins’ book How to Build Plastic Ship Models. This is a terrific book, especially if you’re about to tackle the big revell kit.

The book is OOP, but is worth tryign to hunt down from used book dealers or libraries.

There’s a bunch of us that are getting ready to build the 1/96 Constitution, so keep an eye out for photos. I actually have two I’m building, one for each of my boys. And it is a wonderful kit.

I use acrylics almost exclusively. The colours just seem more pigment heavy and they thin easily for airbrushes. Just my personal preference.

I use Testors glue for plastic models, and varying types of CA depending on what I’m doing. As an example, I set my eyelets using CA. Don’t use the plastic eyelets in the kit. They will break virtually every time. You can get metal ones in the necklace-making section of hobby lobby. They are easily bent or cut, and can be sized to be as small as you like. As for sealants, I use a clear satin finish on all my hulls. It looks “scale”.

As for your airbrush, there are many people here that use airbrushes. I only use mine for jobs that are normally time consuming, like painting all those cannons. But, I prefer to hand paint my hulls. First off because I love doing it, and second, because the textures that may be left by the brush just seem to fit the look.

Let us know when you start, and post some pics. We’re always looking for new pics…

Grymm

Grymm,

I was thinking acrylics as well. My wife uses them exclusively for her horse models and gets excellent results with both the air brush and with brush painting. She used to use medium viscosity Liquitex acrylics but now uses some brand called Jo Sonja’s which seem to be good well pigmented colors with good flow characteristics.

I do intend to take pics as I start the build since my dad is interested in seeing how it goes. I think I might be able to convince him to build one as well - he’s retired so he certainly has more free time than I do. I was also planning on using replacement wire eyelets. I just figured I’d have to make them by twisting wire but since you mentioned the necklace section I’ll have to check that out as well.

As for the build itself, I’m going to follow the lead of the Len Roberto build-up. It sounds like he did a lot of the research and chose to build the version from the War of 1812 which is what I wanted to do as well. Anyway, thanks to everyone for yet more good advice. It’s on to the supply store tomorrow to get fresh paints and supplies and then on to getting started.

Personally i think it’s an awesome kit, i just finished mine recently after a 4 month build,and have some photos if interested. I pretty much built mine straight from the box except for the shrouds and ratlines…not the best job, but effective, and enjoyed every minute. I used mostly acrlyics for ease of cleanup and no fumes. The only parts i sprayed were the decks, and masts with testors spray cans. However which way you choose to build it we’ll be looking forward to some pics…good luck.

Michael

When you paint your hull using a brush and acrylics, what size brush do you use? Do you thin the paint at all?

Mike

When hand-brushing, I do not thin my paint, unless it absolutely needs it (like it’s drying out, or something like that.) Acrylics can be hard to work with. But too thin and the paint won’t adhere to the suface.

I’m not big on brush sizes, but, for general hull painting, I’ll use a squared tip that’s about 1/2 inch wide.

Grymm

Tenax 7R is the best plastic model “Glue” ever made. It is actually not a glue but a welder that dries in 10 seconds or so. Styrene to styrene there simply is nothing better and no smell.

Of course you will also use cyno on a model like this for the rigging etc.

If you are going to do this model and invest the time involved buy new testors MM paint.

Rule of thumb for me is whatever the model cost…it will cost 50% of that again in materials.

My big B36 model…a ten month model…at least $40-50 in paint.

Greetings from Massachusetts. I’m currently working on my USS Constitution and this is my 4th time building it. I’m part of the Bay Colony modeling club in Massachusetts and I’ve got a posting with pictures of my model in process along with a write up I did. The ship hopefully will be ready for a model show in November, but I do have a long way to go. I’m getting ready to set the masts and looking to starting rigging her in the next couple weeks. One quick piece of advise, the pre-formed ratlines that come with the kit, if you have the time and patience make your own. They don’t line up with the deadeyes and homemade ones will look better. My girlfriend thinks I’m nuts making my own, but for what it’s worth, I think homemade ratlines will make the ship look better. If you can, get “How to Build Ships” by Les Wilkens. Another modeler suggested that, and let me tell you, some of the information in the book is a big help, especially with a ship like the Constitution.

You can read what I wrote up so far and hopefully it’ll be of some help for you depending on how far you’ve progressed. Here’s the website: ipmsbaycolony.com got to “What’s on you workbench” and click on U.S.S Constitution

Looking forward to hearing from you

Ed Rosario

hi.

I tried to find your pictures but the link ans website did not have a workbench listing could you post the link for us?

Jake

Hi Jake,

I initially had the same problem. Go to their forum first and then to “What’s on your workbench”.

http://www.ipmsbaycolony.com/mambo/index.php?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=47

Hi guys:

I too am at the beginning stage of building this ship. So far I have the hull togethern and have just installed and painted the gun deck. I have also painted the hull with Poly scale acrylics, except for the copper plating which was alclad II lacquer. I haven’t decided if I should wheather the copper hull as of this writing. One thing I did do was to pour 2 sections of resin castings into the lower hull at the keel so I could make a firm attachment with the brass pesdicals I have for mounting it to a wood base.

I will try to post some in progress pictures later today.

I have purchased a ton of bass wood so I can plank the main deck with wood, really sick right!!

Dick Wood

Actually, planking the deck of this particular kit isn’t as difficult as it may look at first glance. I did it on the one I built about thirty years ago. The designers (probably unintentionally) made it relatively easy.

Normally, the big problem would be to contend with the extra thickness the planks would add to the plastic deck. But take a look at how the decks (both spar deck and gun deck) are mounted to the hull halves. Inside the hull halves are some big horizontal pins, which support the decks. The pins are mounted in pairs, about (if I remember right) 1/8"" apart. Molded on the bottom of the deck components are a series of vertical pins, which fit between the ones on the hull halves. The interesting thing is that each pin on the underside of the deck parts sits in the middle of a flat plastic “pad,” which happens to be just about 1/32" thick. In other words, the mechanism for mounting the deck consists of a series of T-shaped projections on the bottoms of the deck components, mating with horizontal pins on the hull halves. (Just why those pads are there I don’t know; maybe they correct an error earlier in the design process.)

Shave off the pads with an Xacto knife, and the whole deck assembly drops by 1/32". Plank it with 1/32"-thick basswood, and it’s back up to the proper level. (You’ll have to add 1/32" strips to the tops of the hatch coamings and other projections too, but there aren’t many of them. Revell made just about all the deck furniture in the form of separate pieces.)

I used basswood on mine; if I were doing it today I’d use holly veneer, but basswood is much easier to find and actually works pretty well. Another tip: before you lay each plank, run a pencil around the edge. That will produce a fine, dark grey line to represent the caulking, and can’t be removed by any subsequent scraping or sanding.

On my old model I used Revell tube-type plastic cement (now, alas, no longer available) to stick down the planks. It was good stuff; it softened the surface of the plastic and soaked into the wood, making a good, solid bond. The only widely-available tube-type plastic cement currently available seems to be that stringy, too-fast-drying Testor’s stuff. (I can remember the days when Testor’s started mixing oil of mustard into it, to ward off glue sniffers. It hasn’t been the same since.) Whether that would work satisfactorily for wood/styrene joints I don’t know.

For a finish, I like the “Driftwood” color wood stain sold by Olympic Paints (available from places like Lowe’s), followed by a coat white shellac, diluted almost beyond recognition with denatured alcohol.

If I remember correctly, planking both those decks, once I’d laid in the necessary quantity of basswood strips, took me about two evenings. A pretty modest investment in time for a big improvement in the finished model’s appearance. And probably not much more time than it would take to eradicate the awful joints between the deck sections.

Maybe I shouldn’t mention the following point, but in my much younger years I missed the other big problem with that kit: the fact that the hull sides are too thin. That really isn’t Revell’s fault; with 1965 technology it probably wasn’t possible to make them any thicker without introducing major problems with shrinkage. If I were doing the kit again (gawd forbid) I’d try to fix that. It wouldn’t be hard to add some plastic strip around the edges of the ports on the gun deck, but the spar deck bulwarks would be a bigger problem. I’d be tempted to ignore that one.

Good luck. It’s a great old kit.

Here’s a few shots of mine, although recently completed… For the decks i glued the pieces together first, and used a little putty to fill the seams then painted the decks for a one piece look. Overall it looks ok. I want tackle this baby again once i finish my 2 other projects.

Grymm, How much in the way of brush strokes and uneven paint do you tolerate? I am in the middle of painting my cutty sark hull a flat black ( my first ship model) and tried it with a brush although I used testors modelmaster enamel but it seems too thick and there are visible lines in the paint. Do you have any photos of what it should look like?

Michael,

Wow! That’s a really nice job! I’m hoping my first effort will look that good. I also like that you made it with the sails. I know there’s differing points of view on rigging with or without sails but it somehow seems wrong to me to build a “sailing” ship without having it’s sails unfurled and billowing. Once again, great job.

Matt

Wasnt sure if i was highjacking your thread by posting some pics, but thought you might get some ideas. I like sails myself, and thank you for the complement…best of luck on your build Matt.

Hi Mike,

Well, I don’t use enamels, because of the exact problem you describe. I always ended up with very heavy brush strokes no matter how I thinned it. I gave up models for a couple of decades, working with resin figures in the interim, and learned the joy of painting in acrylics. For me, acrylics work perfectly and I seldom get brush strokes. Now, the downside for some acrylics is that it can take more than one coat depending on the brand and the colour.

What I do (and I’m sure JTilley has some great suggestions) is, for the hull of the Cutty Sark for example, is paint with the horizontal lines of the hull. That way, any serious brush strokes will dissappear into the plank lines. But I will say that, with acrylics being easily thinned with water, that I’ve never had any serious issues with deep brush strokes. Any that I do end up with are very subtle and seem to blend in with the hull lines…

Tell you what. Here’s what I did. I got a bottle of enamel black, and a bottle of acrylic black. I painted with both and decided which type to use based on that. I just never got along with enamels. But, make sure you put a clear satin down when your done. Ships like the CS weren’t really “flat” black. Indeed, ships of that era were more to the gloss side. A satin coat looks more in scale.

Michael,

Beautiful job on the Constitution. I am very impressed that you were able to make those plastic sails work. I’m currently working with a fabric store to make cloth sails that are literally “permanently starched”, using the kit sails as molds for the cloth sails. My wife is going to be doing all the sewing for me…well hopefully…when I tell her…

Michael, could you do me a favor. My email is pstanfield38@aol.com. Would it be much trouble for you to send me your entire picture archive of your build? I’m building a reference library for my own build. I have two Constitutions to build (for each of my boys) and would love to see your work…

Thanks,

Grymm

ps…hey JTilley, I’m finally taking your advice. Rigging ships in the days of spritsail topmast and the book on Lord Nelson’s ships are on my xmas list.

…yeah, yeah, yeah, I know…you finally convinced me to get a little more accurate…